A surface integral over infinite space

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the evaluation of a surface integral of a normalizable function over infinite space, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the implications of normalizability and the conditions under which the integral may or may not be zero.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the surface integral of a normalizable function, which approaches zero at infinity, is necessarily zero, given the infinite area of the surface.
  • Another participant provides a counterexample using a specific function defined on a finite region, suggesting that the integral can be non-zero despite the function being normalizable.
  • A later reply seeks clarification on the nature of the question, suggesting that it may require a more precise mathematical formulation.
  • Participants note that normalizability in quantum mechanics involves ensuring that the integral of the square of the function is finite, which may not be satisfied merely by the function approaching zero at infinity.
  • It is mentioned that functions must decrease "fast enough" for the integral to converge, indicating a need for specific conditions beyond mere normalizability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of normalizability and the evaluation of the surface integral, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific definitions and mathematical formulations, which may affect the clarity of the discussion regarding the conditions for convergence and normalizability.

dyn
Messages
774
Reaction score
63
Hi.
If a function f is normalizable ,ie f→0 as | x | → infinity or r→ infinity then I presume the following surface integral f dS over infinite space is zero ?
But I thought about this again and it seems like a case of zero x infinity. The function is zero at the infinite surface but the area of the infinite surface is infinite. Is the surface integral zero ?
Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but define f(x) for x\in\mathbb{R}^2 to be 1 if x is in the unit square [0,1]\times [0,1] and zero everywhere else. This is "normalizable" according to your definition. Let S be the plane \mathbb{R}^2. Then \int_S f dS=1.

Edit: I might not understand what you mean by infinite surface.
 
dyn said:
Hi.
If a function f is normalizable ,ie f→0 as | x | → infinity or r→ infinity then I presume the following surface integral f dS over infinite space is zero ?
But I thought about this again and it seems like a case of zero x infinity. The function is zero at the infinite surface but the area of the infinite surface is infinite. Is the surface integral zero ?
Thanks
Can you explain this question? Should it be a question about physical methods, or what does normalizing here mean? Maybe you can give an example for function and surface?
 
The normalisable function is a normalisable wavefunction from quantum mechanics
 
dyn said:
The normalisable function is a normalisable wavefunction from quantum mechanics
Then I assume you should better post this there. AFAIK is normalisability a technique used by physicists to deal with otherwise infinite quantities.

Your question is hard to answer mathematically if you don't say what you mean, i.e. in terms of equations, not words.
 
Normalizable, in Quantum Mechanics, means that in the 1-dimensional case the integral
N^2=$$\int_{a}^{b} |f(x)|^2dx $$ ,
is well-defined and ##N^2<\infty##. The limits ##a## and ##b## can here either be finite or infinite.
Similarly, in the 2-dimensional case:
$$N^2=\int dS |f(\vec{x})|^2 $$

The condition that ##f(x)\rightarrow## when ##|x|\rightarrow \infty## is not enough.
 
Usually functions need to decrease "fast enough" for convergence.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K