What is a wave with no frequency?

[pinestone]

I'm not quite sure if this thread belongs here, but what would you call one wave that has no frequency. Zero Hz? A mobius ?

 

[Pengwuino]

It would not be much of a wave without a frequency. I suppose maybe the cloest thing that at least i can think of is a standing wave. It has a frequency but the frequency and motion of the wave are such that the wave does appear to move.

 

[Claude Bile]

Even standing waves have well defined frequency components. All waves possesses a frequency spectrum, the 0 Hz point is included in such a spectrum (even negative frequencies).

There really is no ambiguity here. All waves have a spectrum.

Claude.

 

[Tide]

How about calling it a "static field?"

 

[pinestone]

... standing wave. It has a frequency but the frequency and motion of the wave are such that the wave does appear to move.

Yes, I see- a wave that does not have an iteration (due to reflection) appears to be motionless within a frame of time.

 

[pinestone]

How about calling it a "static field?"

Is there a specific static field that can be described as having a moebius form?

 

[chroot]

A wave with zero frequency is a flat line. Just look at any wave equation.

- Warren

 

[vanesch]

Is there a specific static field that can be described as having a moebius form?

I don't see what it even would *mean* for a field to have a moebius form, after all, it is a manifold and not a field, no ?

 

[berkeman]

I'm not quite sure if this thread belongs here, but what would you call one wave that has no frequency. Zero Hz? A mobius ?

Before we can answer the question, we need to see the equation for this "wave" amplitude vs. time. Can you post what you mean?

 

[pinestone]

Before we can answer the question, we need to see the equation for this "wave" amplitude vs. time. Can you post what you mean?

I'm not using an equation. It is a visible image.

 

[berkeman]

I'm not using an equation. It is a visible image.

Well, can you write an equation for it so we can "see" it too? Or else attach a JPG picture of it?

 

[pinestone]

Well, can you write an equation for it so we can "see" it too? Or else attach a JPG picture of it?

I can't tell you much without making my patent lawyer upset. I will have plenty of images and a great description of my invention on my website within a couple of weeks.

 

[chroot]

You're not going to get meaningful answers with a meaningless question and a meaningless picture, pinestone.

- Warren

 

[pinestone]

You're not going to get meaningful answers with a meaningless question and a meaningless picture, pinestone.

- Warren

I guess we will all have to wait...

 

[chroot]

If your patent lawyer knew what he was doing, he could file a provisional patent application for you in a matter of hours. This would establish a first filing date and immeditely begin providing legal protection. Then you could share your project's details without fear of legal problems.

Otherwise, I'm afraid your questions and picture are entirely non-sensical.

- Warren

 

[pinestone]

If your patent lawyer knew what he was doing, he could file a provisional patent application for you in a matter of hours. This would establish a first filing date and immeditely begin providing legal protection. Then you could share your project's details without fear of legal problems.

Otherwise, I'm afraid your questions and picture are entirely non-sensical.

- Warren

Some things you just can't rush into

 

[chroot]

I take it you don't know how to the patent process works, then. Patents are all about rushing.

- Warren

 

[pinestone]

I take it you don't know how to the patent process works, then. Patents are all about rushing.

- Warren

I do know how the process works, that is why we are doing it right the first time. My last patent cost me a small fortune because the patent office wasn't satisfied the first couple of times around. It must be nice using someone elses lab and resources. Kinda like living at home with mom

 

[chroot]

And why wasn't the patent office satisfied with your previous applications?

- Warren

 

[pinestone]

And why wasn't the patent office satisfied with your previous applications?

- Warren

Because I tried to rush it through and there were some questionable items. ($2000.00 extra, each time).

 

[pinestone]

Since we aren't really getting anything resolved here, maybe it's time to quit this...

 

[chroot]

We have people like you on here pretty frequently, pinestone... the sort who don't seem to know even basic physics or mathematics, yet have some incredible new secret invention in the works, patent pending, with which they need help. My advice: pick up a copy of Halliday and Resnick.

- Warren

 

[pinestone]

We have people like you on here pretty frequently, pinestone... the sort who don't seem to know even basic physics or mathematics, yet have some incredible new secret invention in the works, patent pending, with which they need help. My advice: pick up a copy of Resnick and Halliday.

- Warren

It won't be a secret much longer. Thanks for the advice.

 

[chroot]

It won't be a secret much longer. Thanks for the advice.

I wait with bated breath.

- Warren

 

[pinestone]

I wait with bated breath.

- Warren

No, really- thanks for the advice. I found the entire book on-line. It's quite comprehensive and will be quite helpful to me.

 

[pallidin]

Zero Hz directly implies "no frequency" of polarity change. This is called DC, or "direct current"

 

[pinestone]

Zero Hz directly implies "no frequency" of polarity change. This is called DC, or "direct current"

A stationary wave would be traveling at the speed of light.

 

[Manchot]

Here's a question for you, Pinestone. Does your invention actually work?

 

[franznietzsche]

A stationary wave would be traveling at the speed of light.

Wait...what?

No...

 

[pinestone]

Here's a question for you, Pinestone. Does your invention actually work?

Yes. Very well, indeed.

 

[pinestone]

Wait...what?

No...

Here we go again...

 

[Manchot]

Yes. Very well, indeed.

And you have a working prototype?

 

[DaveC426913]

Hey guys. Pinestone hasn't opened himself up for judgement here. His question was merely for information.

I know it's tempting to jump on someone if they walk like a crazy inventor and talk like a crazy inventor, but let's let him commit a crime first, before we start accusing him of one.

 

[gulsen]

I'm not quite sure if this thread belongs here, but what would you call one wave that has no frequency. Zero Hz? A mobius ?

AFAIK, you can't have a wave that has 0 frequency, uncertainy principle just doesn't let you.

 

[pallidin]

From http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/mmedia/waves/swf.html

In conclusion, standing wave patterns are produced as the result of the repeated interference of two waves of identical frequency while moving in opposite directions along the same medium. All standing wave patterns consist of nodes and anti-nodes. The nodes are points of no displacement caused by the destructive interference of the two waves. The anti-nodes result from the constructive interference of the two waves and thus undergo maximum dispacement from the rest position.

 

[pallidin]

From http://id.mind.net/~zona/mstm/physics/waves/standingWaves/standingWaves.html

Standing waves are non-traveling vibrations of certain wavelength and frequency which occur on a medium of certain size. The size of the medium controls the wavelengths of the standing waves. Also, the way that the medium is held at its ends, either fixed or open, controls the wavelengths of the standing waves.

 

[pallidin]

Therefore, as stated by gulsen, it is not possible to have a wave with zero frequency, rather, only a wave that does not propagate.

 

[franznietzsche]

A stationary wave would be traveling at the speed of light.

Therefore, as stated by gulsen, it is not possible to have a wave with zero frequency, rather, only a wave that does not propagate.

Yes, such a wave is not traveling at the speed of light.

The wave function for a bound electron is a standing wave, and it is also not traveling at the speed of light.

 

[DaveC426913]

Zero Hz directly implies "no frequency" of polarity change. This is called DC, or "direct current"

THis is what I would have thought too.

While AC oscillates from 110V to -110V 60 times per second, if it just stopped oscillating, it would simply be 110V DC (though I suppose it could just as likely be 0V).

But you couldn't have light with a freq of 0Hz.

 

[pinestone]

And you have a working prototype?

Yes, I have many prototypes with different qualities of resolution. I'm still trying different combinations of xxxxxxxx while I'm waiting for my lawyers to finish the app. I was hoping to gain some insight into some of the things that are happening inside this "apparatus" of mine by asking all of you some simple questions concerning my observations. I've been into experimental physics for over 35 years but lack a formal education. However, I can prototype just about anything micro-mechanical or electronic. Please be patient, and I'll post a link here soon to my website for all to interact with. I truly appreciate any comments or information any of you may have. Together we will find the truth.

 

[pinestone]

Yes, such a wave is not traveling at the speed of light.

The wave function for a bound electron is a standing wave, and it is also not traveling at the speed of light.

I gave this theory a lot of thought. You must understand that I'm not generating anything. If you look at the .jpg I posted on page one of this topic, you will see a light, a magnet (covered with black shrink tubing to cut down on reflections) and a wave. No electronic anything. I have thousands of images-not computer generated. Many 35mm film images, too.

 

[pinestone]

Here's a question for you, Pinestone. Does your invention actually work?

I'm not sure what you mean by "work". It does, however, reveal another facet of magnetism. Look at the .jpg I posted on page one of this thread. What do you see?

 

[pinestone]

THis is what I would have thought too.

While AC oscillates from 110V to -110V 60 times per second, if it just stopped oscillating, it would simply be 110V DC (though I suppose it could just as likely be 0V).

But you couldn't have light with a freq of 0Hz.

A DC wave wouldn't be sine- it would be square.

 

[pinestone]

Hey guys. Pinestone hasn't opened himself up for judgement here. His question was merely for information.

I know it's tempting to jump on someone if they walk like a crazy inventor and talk like a crazy inventor, but let's let him commit a crime first, before we start accusing him of one.

Thank you. I'm trying to follow the rules. This is difficult for me, too. Maybe we should end this link until I can tell you guys everything. I'll leave it to the "Masters" of this site- continue or quit?

 

[pinestone]

Therefore, as stated by gulsen, it is not possible to have a wave with zero frequency, rather, only a wave that does not propagate.

Yes, a very good explanation.

 

[pinestone]

As a wave approaches the speed of light, doesn't it slow down? When it is traveling at the same speed as light, doesn't it appear to stand still? re:Einstein?

 

[AlphaNumeric]

Look at the .jpg I posted on page one of this thread. What do you see?

That you're not sure how to use the focus on your camera?

As a wave approaches the speed of light, doesn't it slow down? When it is traveling at the same speed as light, doesn't it appear to stand still? re:Einstein?

A wave of what? A 'particle' or a disturbance within some medium?

Neither of those types of waves can both travel slower than light and at light. The speed of a disturbance through a medium depends on the properties of the medium. Sound is a disturbance in air, and goes at about 330m/s. In steel it's more like 2km/s! There isn't a medium in which it could go as fast as light through.

Yes, as a disturbance passes through more and more rigid media (or you're accelerating a particle) time will pass slower for it, and you'd need to bring in relativistic equations. It will not actually reach the speed of light though. Particles can't do it, they have mass (if they didn't, they'd only move at the speed of light) and disturbances can't do it because the medium they are in has mass.

 

[franznietzsche]

I gave this theory a lot of thought. You must understand that I'm not generating anything. If you look at the .jpg I posted on page one of this topic, you will see a light, a magnet (covered with black shrink tubing to cut down on reflections) and a wave. No electronic anything. I have thousands of images-not computer generated. Many 35mm film images, too.

Huh? What are you talking about? Did you quote the right post?

I didn't say anything about an electronic device. I was pointing out the the wave function of a bound particle is a standing wave, but that particle does not travel at the speed of light. What are you talking about?

As a wave approaches the speed of light, doesn't it slow down? When it is traveling at the same speed as light, doesn't it appear to stand still? re:Einstein?

You're mixing up reference frames. In a particle's (wave packet) fram of reference it is always holding still. In a removed inertial frame it may be moving.

 

[Mk]

I don't know if anybody has brought this up, but I found this very interesting, and was reminded of this thread.

The basic idea of string theory of course, is that the fundamental constituents of reality are strings of the Planck length (about 10^-35 m) which vibrate at resonant frequencies. The tension of a string (8.9×1042 N) is about 10⁴¹ times the tension of an average piano string (735 Newtons). The graviton is predicted by the theory to have zero amplitude.

Oh yes, the strings were just supposed to be strings, not necessarily waves. I was astounded by this. What about particle-wave duality?? Maybe I should ask this in QP instead.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

Though I've only done 26 dimensional bosonic string theory (so the 11d superstring theory might be different on this point), but isn't the graviton the first excited state of the string? Surely if it's in an excited state, it can't have zero amplitude.

Mind you, the non-excited state is a tachyon, so that theory itself needs tweaking (which our lecturers assures is done further down the line).