A ZERO Curl and a ZERO divergence

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the theorem stating that for a vector function A with zero divergence (div(V) = 0), there exists a vector function U such that V = curl(U), provided certain conditions are met. The Poincaré lemma is highlighted as a crucial result that applies to open and star-shaped domains, confirming the existence of a potential function under these conditions. The example of the vector field (-y/r^2, x/r^2) illustrates the necessity of avoiding singularities, as the theorem does not hold globally due to the singularity at the origin. The proof of the Poincaré lemma can be found in "Calculus on Manifolds" by Spivak, specifically in theorem 4-11 on page 94.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of vector calculus concepts such as divergence and curl.
  • Familiarity with the Poincaré lemma and its implications in vector fields.
  • Knowledge of differential forms and their relation to vector calculus.
  • Basic understanding of singularities in vector fields and their effects on potential functions.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the Poincaré lemma in detail and its applications in vector calculus.
  • Review "Calculus on Manifolds" by Spivak, focusing on theorem 4-11 and exercise 4-19.
  • Explore the implications of singularities in vector fields and their impact on potential functions.
  • Investigate the relationship between differential forms and traditional vector calculus operations.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, physicists, and students of advanced calculus who are interested in vector fields, potential functions, and theorems related to divergence and curl.

Robt Massagli
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
A ZERO Divergence Vector Field

There is theorem that is widely used in physics--e.g., electricity and magnetism for which I have no proof, yet we use this theorem at the drop of a hat. The theorem is this:

Given sufficient continuity and differentiability, every vector function A such that div(V) = 0 yields a vector function U such V = curl(U).

Is there a simple proof of this?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
I think a proof of this might go along the lines of constructing (a formula for) the vector potential, where the construction holds only for divergence-less vector fields.

Also, there are likely issues of the region over which you are integrating. Your statement above may only be guaranteed locally, a subtle point that is often glossed over in physics courses.

I'll try to describe this issue in the case of a curlless vector field being the gradient of some scalar potential.

The vector field (-y/r,x/r), I think that has zero curl, so locally it has a scalar potential, but globally it is not possible. The theorems don't apply because there is a singularity in the vector field at the origin.

You can visualize the potential function as a winding staircase, so the gradient points up the stairs, locally you can describe the height of the stairs, but if you make more than a full loop around the pole, your height will not be well defined over the plane.
 
Last edited:
This is not true. We need certain conditions on the domain in order to get this result. A nice condition that we can demand is that the domain of the vector field is open and star-shaped. For example, an open ball would satisfy this, or entire \mathbb{R}^3 would satisfy this as well.

In the case of an open and star-shaped domain, the result is true and is given by the so-called Poincaré lemma. Even more general, the Poincaré lemma holds for contractible domains.

A proof of this can be found in "Calculus on manifolds" by Spivak. The result is theorem 4-11 p94. However, it is stated in the language of differential forms. Exercise 4-19 in the same chapter relate differential forms to the more common notions of div, grad and curl.
 
I made a typo above, I think my example should have been

(-y/r^2,x/r^2)
 


Robt Massagli said:
There is theorem that is widely used in physics--e.g., electricity and magnetism for which I have no proof, yet we use this theorem at the drop of a hat. The theorem is this:

Given sufficient continuity and differentiability, every vector function A such that div(V) = 0 yields a vector function U such V = curl(U).

Is there a simple proof of this?
I think you are referrring to a particular case of a general result called Poincaré Lemma, which states under which condition a function called "potential" can exist, in a wide range of situations. It is indeed an extremely powerful result.
 
Relativistic Momentum, Mass, and Energy Momentum and mass (...), the classic equations for conserving momentum and energy are not adequate for the analysis of high-speed collisions. (...) The momentum of a particle moving with velocity ##v## is given by $$p=\cfrac{mv}{\sqrt{1-(v^2/c^2)}}\qquad{R-10}$$ ENERGY In relativistic mechanics, as in classic mechanics, the net force on a particle is equal to the time rate of change of the momentum of the particle. Considering one-dimensional...

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
7K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
11K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
7K