Absolute light speed or velocity or both?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of light speed and velocity, particularly in the context of Einstein's light clock and the implications of component velocities in different frames of reference. Participants explore whether the components of light's velocity can be less than the invariant speed of light, c, and how this relates to time dilation and the perception of speed in different frames.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the components of light's velocity can be less than c, suggesting that it is the speed of light that is invariant, not the velocity components.
  • Others argue that in the frame of a rocket moving along the x-axis, the vertical component of light's speed remains c, while it appears diagonal to a stationary observer, leading to confusion regarding component velocities.
  • A later reply questions the interpretation of light's speed in different frames, emphasizing that observers in different frames perceive light's travel differently, impacting their understanding of velocity components.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are competing views regarding the nature of light speed and its components in different reference frames.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexities of relativistic effects, including time dilation and the interpretation of velocity components, without resolving the underlying assumptions or definitions involved.

Faradave
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"Absolute" light speed or velocity or both?

Consider an inverse of Einstein's light clock. On a cartesian plane in a vacuum, a beam of light emanates from the origin at 45 degrees with velocity c. Is it OK that the x and y component velocities are each less than c (i.e. c divided by sqrt 2) or must time adjust to make component velocities also c?
 
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Faradave said:
Consider an inverse of Einstein's light clock. On a cartesian plane in a vacuum, a beam of light emanates from the origin at 45 degrees with velocity c. Is it OK that the x and y component velocities are each less than c (i.e. c divided by sqrt 2) or must time adjust to make component velocities also c?
It's the speed of light that is an invariant, not the velocity. The components of velocity can certainly be less than c.
 


Doc Al said:
The components of velocity can certainly be less than c.

Then Einstein's light clock gets a bit confusing. Say light radiates up the y-axis to a reflector and back (in the frame of a rocket traveling along the x-axis with speed v.) An observer stationary wrt the Cartesian plane sees the light take a diagonal path and we impose c as its speed limit. Fine. But the folks in the rocket don't see that their vertical light speed component can "certainly be less than c". They get their time dilated, from the stationary observer's perspective. Thus, my original post.
 


Faradave said:
But the folks in the rocket don't see that their vertical light speed component can "certainly be less than c".
In the frame of the rocket, the light only travels vertically, so its vertical component = c. The light travels diagonally only in the "stationary" frame, so in that frame the components are less than c.
 

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