Absorption cross section of light in air

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the absorption cross section of visible light in air, focusing on the penetration depth of light and the assumptions regarding molecular dimensions. Participants explore the implications of using different values for the absorption cross section and the transparency of air to visible light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes estimating the absorption cross section using either the wavelength of visible light (600 nm) or the bond length (~100 pm), suggesting that the bond length might provide a best-case scenario for transparency.
  • Another participant questions the relevance of bond length to the absorption cross section, implying that the relationship is not straightforward.
  • A participant suggests that the dimensions of the charge distribution might relate to the absorption cross section and seeks alternative methods for estimating it without detailed quantum mechanical calculations.
  • There is a mention of the observation that the absorption cross sections of N2 and O2 are much smaller than expected based on their charge distributions, prompting a discussion about the lack of resonances in the visible spectrum for these molecules.
  • One participant asserts that useful estimates for the cross section require detailed simulations or reference data, emphasizing that significant absorption occurs in the vacuum UV range, not in the visible spectrum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions and methods for estimating the absorption cross section, with no consensus reached on the best approach or the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in estimating the absorption cross section without detailed molecular interaction data and acknowledges the complexity of the relationship between molecular dimensions and light absorption.

Big Bird
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When I woke up today in the morning, I had the stupid idea of trying to remember some of my knowledge from university. As it turned out, this was easier thought than done, especially given my still drowsy state of mind.

I want to roughly estimate the penetration depth of visible light in air. First obstacle: what should I assume for the absorption cross section? Should I assume for its diameter the wavelength (600 nm on average), or should I rather assume the bond length (~100 pm)? I know that an accurate analysis would have to take into account the details of the interaction, but as I said, I only want a rough estimate (orders of magnitude).

Anyways if I take the bond length (which would be the best case w.r.t. transparency), I arrive at a cross section of order ~10-20 m2.

Next I considered the number of molecules in a cubic meter of air: N=1000 l/(22.4 l/NA)~50 NA~1026.

Now, this seems to lead to a macroscopic cross section of that cubic meter of air of ~106m2 as opposed to its geometrical cross section of 1m2. That is, the air should be totally opaque already at distances of 1 meter, or the penetration depth would be ~1 micron.

What is wrong about my argument? Or can it even be done on this general level of investigation (i.e. without considering absorption levels of molecules)?
 
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Why would the bond length in molecules have any relation to the absorption cross section?
 
@mfb: Because it relates to the dimensions of the charge distribution? But as I said, I only meant it as a kind-of best case estimate. If you know any better way of guessing the cross section without the need for detailed quantum mechanical calculations, I'd be glad.

Maybe I should ask the other way around: can we give any general justification for the apparent fact that the cross sections of N2 and O2 molecules are much smaller than the charge distribution would indicate (i.e. that the individual molecules are somewhat transparent for visible light)?

Maybe something like: the next resonance is so and so far away from the visible spectrum and the Lorentz oscillator model implies that the absorption is so and so much weaker than if there was a resonance in the visible band itself?
 
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You won't get a useful estimate for the cross section without detailed simulations or looking it up.
Big Bird said:
can we give any general justification for the apparent fact that the cross sections of N2 and O2 molecules are much smaller than the charge distribution would indicate (i.e. that the individual molecules are somewhat transparent for visible light)?
There is no available transition in the range of visible light. You only get these in the vacuum UV range (under 200 nm). That's why it is called vacuum UV - it's strongly absorbed by air.
 

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