Accelerating frame of references & their trasformations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the topic of accelerating frames of reference and their transformations, particularly in the context of classical mechanics and special relativity. Participants seek resources and clarification on how these concepts are treated in various texts, including both classical and modern approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty finding resources on accelerating frames in classical mechanics, noting that even comprehensive texts like Goldstein do not cover the subject.
  • Another participant suggests MTW's "Gravitation" for special relativity and mentions Bogoliubov transforms, although they lack detailed information on that topic.
  • It is noted that classical mechanics in non-inertial frames is typically covered in many classical mechanics books, with specific examples like Fowles and Cassidy mentioned.
  • A participant emphasizes the importance of understanding non-inertial effects, such as centrifugal and Coriolis forces, particularly in uniformly rotating frames like Earth.
  • Several book recommendations are provided, including works by Keith Symon, Stephen Thornton and Jerry Marion, and A. P. French, with a focus on rotating reference frames.
  • One participant points out that while transformations of accelerations between accelerating frames are commonly discussed, the relationship of axes between accelerating and rest frames can be complex, often involving Euler angles.
  • Classical Mechanics by Irodov is mentioned as another resource that discusses the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that classical mechanics texts cover non-inertial frames, but there is no consensus on which specific resources are most comprehensive or suitable for the topic of accelerating frames. Multiple viewpoints and recommendations are presented without a clear resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in available resources and the complexity of the mathematical relationships involved in transforming between accelerating frames, particularly regarding the use of Euler angles.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators in physics, particularly those interested in classical mechanics, special relativity, and the mathematical treatment of non-inertial frames.

gulsen
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I have various classical mechanics books but none covers this subject. Even Goldstein doesn't. Can someone suggest a book or online resource on the subject?
 
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How about some context?

Accelerating frames in special relativity is covered well in MTW' "Gravitation".

Another keyword is bogoliubov transforms, which may be what you're looking for, but I don't have much detailed info on that. Think I've seen that mostly in the context of quantum mechanics in curved spacetime, think they are mentioned in Wald's "General Relativity".

The SR (special relativity) treatment is simpler if it will do what you want.
 
Classical mechanics in non-inertial frames is treated in almost any classical mechanics book, e.g. Fowles and Cassidy.

Most important application being of course the description of noninertial effects in a uniformly rotating frame such as (approximately) Earth like centrifugal, Coriolis and transverse forces.
 
pervect, as Galileo stated, and I implied by saying "classical mechanics", I'm clearly talking about accelerating and rotating reference systems in Newtonian physics, and of course their effects such as Coriolis.

Galileo said:
Classical mechanics in non-inertial frames is treated in almost any classical mechanics book, e.g. Fowles and Cassidy.
Thanks, but I couldn't find that book in our library :( Any other suggestions?
 
Other possibilities:

Mechanics, by Keith Symon (now in its third edition)

Classical Dynamics of Particles and Systems, by Stephen Thornton and Jerry Marion (now in its fifth edition; I think earlier editions are by Marion alone)

Newtonian Mechanics, by A. P. French

I don't know about linearly accelerated reference frames, but surely any intermediate-level classical mechanics book should cover rotating reference frames. I remember learning about centrifugal force, Coriolis force and transverse force from an earlier edition of Fowles and Cassiday (by Fowles alone), during my second undergraduate year, over thirty years ago.
 
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gulsen said:
I have various classical mechanics books but none covers this subject. Even Goldstein doesn't. Can someone suggest a book or online resource on the subject?
Yes. Mechanics 3rd Ed, L.D. Landau and E.M Lif****z. See Section 39 on page 126 Motion in a non-inertial frame of reference. Good luck. I'll try to find more. I believe I have another book which discusses this. I'll see if I can find it.

Pete

ps - Moderator - The program for stripping out certain words has caused a problem. The name of the person hass the "sh*tz" ("i" = "*") word as part of his name. Can this problem be solved?
 
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While the proper transformations of ACCELERATIONS of objects between accelerating frames is given in just about any book, it does not follow from this that it is trivial how the AXES of the accelerating frame is related to the frame at rest.

These are typically given in terms of Euler angles, and the relation between the instantaneous angular velocity vector and the rate of change of the Euler angles is, in general, very ugly.
 
pmb_phy said:
ps - Moderator - The program for stripping out certain words has caused a problem. The name of the person hass the "sh*tz" ("i" = "*") word as part of his name. Can this problem be solved?
Lif****z
Evgeny Lifshitz
Евгений Лифшиц

If you quote this post, you'll see how I did it.

However, with this hack, it probably won't be searchable.
 
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Classical Mechanics by Irodov discusses it...
 

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