Acceleration in space question

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    Acceleration Space
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of continuous acceleration in space and the challenges associated with reaching speeds close to the speed of light. Participants explore theoretical implications, practical limitations, and the effects of relativistic physics on acceleration in a vacuum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why continuous acceleration is not feasible in space, suggesting that the absence of drag should allow for increasing speeds indefinitely.
  • Others argue that a force is required for acceleration, and without it, objects will maintain their constant velocity, challenging the assumption that acceleration can occur freely in space.
  • One participant introduces the concept of relativistic mass increase, stating that as an object's velocity approaches the speed of light, its mass increases, requiring infinite energy to reach light speed, which is only achievable by massless particles like photons.
  • Another participant disputes the notion of a complete absence of drag in space, noting that at relativistic speeds, even minimal interstellar material can create significant drag, complicating the idea of continuous acceleration.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the practical limitations of rocket propulsion, emphasizing that to achieve higher speeds, more fuel is needed, which must also be accelerated, leading to exponential increases in fuel requirements as described by the ideal rocket equation.
  • Further elaboration on the relativistic rocket equation indicates that the challenges of acceleration become even more severe when considering relativistic effects, with calculations suggesting impractically high fuel-to-payload ratios for interstellar travel.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of continuous acceleration in space, with some emphasizing theoretical limitations imposed by relativity and others questioning the assumptions about drag and fuel requirements. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to assumptions about drag in space, the dependence on the ideal and relativistic rocket equations, and the implications of relativistic mass increase, which are not fully resolved within the conversation.

Xyius
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If there is little to no drag in space, what is stopping us from just continuously accelerating and reaching speeds close to the speed of light? Shouldn't we just be able to just keep going faster and faster?
 
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You need a force to act on you in order to accelerate. Why do you think that we should accelerate?
The absence of friction allows things to keep their speed constant, if no force is acting on them.
 
Xyius said:
If there is little to no drag in space, what is stopping us from just continuously accelerating and reaching speeds close to the speed of light? Shouldn't we just be able to just keep going faster and faster?

It's simple. Whenever you provide energy to increase velocity of body (accelerate) , fraction of the energy increases mass of the body. The mass will increase and reach infinite at speed of light.
Its given by M=m/sqrt(1-(v/c)^2)
So you need infinite energy to make it (ofcourse you cannot do that)
Only massless particle can do that, they are only photons.

Its the nature. This is the behaviour of nature and you cannot make question to it. It is that bitter fact that we have to accept after understanding the two postulates of theory of special relativity.:wink:
 
Xyius said:
If there is little to no drag in space, what is stopping us from just continuously accelerating and reaching speeds close to the speed of light? Shouldn't we just be able to just keep going faster and faster?
Let's go over these one by one.

1. There is little to no drag in space.
This is not true at relativistic velocities. Interstellar space, and even intergalactic space is not utterly void of substance. Drag due to the interstellar material is very, very small at the kinds of velocities our spacecraft have attained to date. Due to relativistic concerns, drag becomes a very significant issue at very high velocities relative to the interstellar medium.


2. What is stopping us from just continuously accelerating ...
The only way we know how to do that now is to carry the fuel needed for that acceleration with the vehicle. For now, I'll ignore relativistic concerns. Let's look at a rocket that burns all of its fuel. When all the fuel is spent the rocket continues on at a constant velocity (ignoring drag, of course). Suppose we want to make that final velocity a tiny bit faster. That means that we now have to have a tiny bit more fuel left than we would have when the rocket previously had burnt all its fuel. However, that tiny bit of extra fuel now needs to be accelerated along with the rocket. You need extra fuel to make that happen. Taking this all the way back down to the ground, a whole lot more fuel is needed at launch to make the rocket end up with a slight increase in final velocity. This is described mathematically by the ideal rocket equation. If you want to go a whole lot faster you will need a bigger fuel tank. You need to accelerate this, too. Eventually you will get to the point where you need a bigger rocket -- and you need to accelerate that as well! The ideal rocket equation places severe restrictions on how fast we can practically go, and this is without even addressing relativistic concerns.


3. ... and reaching speeds close to the speed of light?
Nasty as the ideal rocket equation is, the relativistic version of it, the relativistic rocket equation, is much, much worse. One of the key parameters in the ideal rocket equation is the velocity of the exhaust relative to the vehicle. The best that can be possibly be achieved is to have the exhaust be in the form of photons. Suppose some futuristic rocket is equipped with a photon drive. We want to use this rocket to travel to some target star. The rocket is to accelerate at 1g proper acceleration until it reaches the half-way point and then decelerate at 1g until it finally comes to a rest at the target star. To go to the nearest star (4.3 light years away), the rocket will "only" need to carry 38 kilograms of fuel for each kilogram of payload (rocket+fuel tanks+people+life support+...). To go to a star 27 light years away, that factor of 38 balloons to a factor of 886. To go to the center of the galaxy, the factor of 38 becomes 955 million.

To add insult to injury, these calculations ignore drag due to the interstellar medium.
 

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