Acoustic communication impossible in even-D

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of acoustic communication in even-dimensional spaces, particularly referencing a statement by Arnold regarding its impossibility. Participants explore the implications of this idea in relation to hyperbolic partial differential equations (PDEs) and the work of mathematicians like Petrovskii, Atiyah, Bott, and Gårding. The scope includes theoretical aspects of mathematics and physics, with references to historical contributions and mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Arnold's statement suggests a generalization about the impossibility of acoustic communication in even-dimensional spaces, contrasting it with three-dimensional communication.
  • Some participants express confusion about the implications of Arnold's statement, with one humorously suggesting a connection to LSD.
  • There is mention of Petrovskii's work on lacunas of hyperbolic PDEs, indicating a relationship between wave behavior and dimensionality.
  • A participant shares a Wikipedia link that discusses the properties of spherical waves in odd and even dimensions, noting differences in wave diffusion.
  • One participant admits to a lack of understanding of the technical details, indicating a varying level of mathematical proficiency among contributors.
  • Another participant provides a link to a paper that further explains the concept of wakes in wave fields and their relation to the dimensionality of the wave equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of Arnold's statement or the technical details surrounding it. There are varying interpretations and levels of understanding regarding the mathematical concepts discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the mathematical details and terminology, indicating that the discussion may depend on specific definitions and assumptions related to wave behavior in different dimensions.

atyy
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Arnold, an in interview with Lui in Notices of the AMS, Volume 44, no 4, p432 says:

"It is a far-reaching generalization of the well-known fact of the impossibility of acoustic communication in the even-dimensional spaces (for instance, in the “plane” world), while in our three-dimensional world we communicate easily."

What is he referring to?
 
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atyy said:
What is he referring to?

My first guess would be LSD.
 
Danger said:
My first guess would be LSD.

:confused: I can't tell if you are pulling my leg!
 
atyy said:
:confused: I can't tell if you are pulling my leg!

Hey, now... it's me. Of course I am. (Jeez, do I have to put smilies on everything?)
 
Danger said:
Hey, now... it's me. Of course I am. (Jeez, do I have to put smilies on everything?)

Well, I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed a brilliant insight about Lorentz Specific Dimensions ...

Anyway, here's more context - it has something to do with lacunas of hyperbolic PDEs.

"Petrovskii was no longer active in mathematics. However, he was extremely important for the Moscow mathematical community, always trying to support genuine mathematicians in difficult fights with the Communist Party.

His mathematical taste was rather classical, based on the Italian school of algebraic geometry more than the set-theoretic conceptions. Sir Michael Atiyah once told me that he was always delighted by the way Petrovskii dealt with algebraic geometry in his works on PDEs. One of these, the paper on the lacunas of hyperbolic PDEs, was later rewritten by Atiyah, Bott, and Gårding in modern terminology in two long papers in Acta Mathematica. It is a far-reaching generalization of the well-known fact of the impossibility of acoustic communication in the even-dimensional spaces (for instance, in the “plane” world), while in our three-dimensional world we communicate easily. It is interesting that in this paper, Petrovskii proved that the cohomology classes of the complement of an algebraic variety are representable by rational differential forms—a result which is usually attributed to Grothendieck."
 
Last edited:
Looks like Wikipedia has an article and links about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrovsky_lacuna

The Petrovsky article linked to says:

"This circumstance implies the fact that in case p is odd the spherical wave produced in a small neighbourhood of a point Q ... has the property that both its front and back edges are sharp. As to the case where p is even or p = 1, only the front edge of such a wave is sharp, while the back edge is diffuse. In the first case it is said that there is no diffusion of waves ... in the second case — that the diffusion of waves takes place."
 
atyy said:
Well, I just wanted to make sure I hadn't missed a brilliant insight about Lorentz Specific Dimensions ...

That's the last thing that you need to worry about when you see a post from me.
As most folks here know, I have a grade 9 math level. Nothing that you wrote makes any sense to me. (I can figure out the volume of a cylinder, but that's about the extent of my numerical talents.)
 
Danger said:
That's the last thing that you need to worry about when you see a post from me.
As most folks here know, I have a grade 9 math level. Nothing that you wrote makes any sense to me. (I can figure out the volume of a cylinder, but that's about the extent of my numerical talents.)

How about the volume of a cone?
 
atyy said:
How about the volume of a cone?

:redface:
 
  • #10
Here's another description, maybe more readable.

http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~gessl/georg_papers/FA05-DrumSim.pdf
"Wakes are the content of a wave field after the point of first arrival, the wavefront, has passed. ...

The study of the existence and basic properties of wakes goes back to Petrovsky and has somewhat later been deepened by Atiyah, Bott and Gårding [2, 3]. If a wavefront does not create a wake, they call it a lacuna. It is known since Volterra, that the wave equation in even spatial dimensions creates wakes, whereas in odd spatial dimensions greater or equal three it doesn’t. The one dimensional wave equation constitutes a special case, as a step function is the correct response to velocity excitations hence there is a “wake-like” influence after the impulsive propagation"
 

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