Add carbon atom to pure hydrogen

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the feasibility and implications of converting gaseous hydrogen into methane (CH4), particularly in the context of energy storage and transportation. Participants explore the technical, economic, and environmental aspects of this conversion process, including potential methods and the efficiency of different approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks methods to bond a carbon atom to hydrogen to create methane, emphasizing the need for a process that minimizes explosive danger and avoids dangerous waste products.
  • Several participants question the necessity of converting hydrogen to methane, suggesting that if hydrogen is readily available, it could be used directly instead of undergoing conversion.
  • Concerns are raised about the energy efficiency of converting hydrogen to methane and then back to hydrogen for use, with some suggesting that transporting water and extracting hydrogen on-site may be more efficient.
  • Another participant argues that methane can be transported through existing natural gas pipelines, while hydrogen cannot, presenting a logistical advantage for methane in terms of infrastructure.
  • A process known as the Sabatier reaction is mentioned as a potential method for producing methane from hydrogen and carbon dioxide.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the abundance of hydrogen and the environmental implications of producing methane, noting that burning hydrogen produces no carbon emissions, while methane does contribute to carbon output.
  • There is a discussion about the economic risks associated with building infrastructure for hydrogen versus methane, with one participant advocating for a strategy that reduces risk by initially focusing on methane production.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the necessity and efficiency of converting hydrogen to methane, with no consensus reached. Some argue for the direct use of hydrogen, while others support the conversion for logistical reasons. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to energy storage and transportation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight various assumptions regarding the sources of hydrogen, the efficiency of energy conversion processes, and the environmental impact of methane versus hydrogen. There are unresolved questions about the practicality and economic viability of the proposed methods.

  • #31
MacGyver2 said:
As for separating the cathode and anode to achieve individual gas isolation, yes, that works, but the amount of current needed to pull it off is ginormous!

That's an economical argument and it makes sense. But then you say

I must scrub off the oxygen

and from the same point of view - economy of the whole process - it doesn't make sense. You need first something to scrub the oxygen, then you need energy to convert hydrogen to something else. I doubt additional costs are worth additional energy you can get from the system this way. Additional battery to add energy storage seems more logical to me.
 
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  • #32
Borek

We're not talking efficiency here. This is a hobby; who cares about efficiency? If this becomes too large a white elephant, we will use a resistive load as has been done forever. I was just trying to be creative and come up with a new trick, that's all.

And as for scrubbing the oxygen, all one need do is pass the H-O mixture under its own partial pressure through steel wool and it's a done deal. I wish adding a carbon atom was as easy!


. . . . . . Mac
 
  • #33
MacGyver2 said:
And as for scrubbing the oxygen, all one need do is pass the H-O mixture under its own partial pressure through steel wool and it's a done deal. I wish adding a carbon atom was as easy!

And what is a chemistry behind? Is it not reaction of iron with the oxygen? If so, you need to replace the steel wool now and again.
 
  • #34
True; I've got a shopping bag full! No biggie. . . . . . Mac
 
  • #35
No biggie, but it makes economy of the process worse again.
 
  • #36
What part of "economy is not part of this" don't you get? I don't give two hoots about economy or feasibility or anything like that. All I'm after is a quick and dirty way to go from hydrogen gas to methane. That's it! I originally intended this to be less complicated than your hairdo.

Maybe it's not in the cards. If that's the case, I will either resume using a resistive load as a dump load or I'll do something else.

Anyone else out there with a clever idea? . . . . . Mac
 
  • #37
melch said:
There are still the issues of radioactivity that lasts millions of years

Actually most nuclear waste isn't all that harmful, a metre or so of concrete provides adequate protection, in fact the British scientist James Lovelock offered to bury Britain's nuclear waste in his back garden, as it could be used to heat his water for free.

The only threat from waste I can imagine is people using it as a "dirty bomb", but that hardly justifies the ludicrous precautions we take these days.
 
  • #38
MacGyver2 said:
What part of "economy is not part of this" don't you get?

So you're not discussing something that is part of the OP?

Read back through and you'll note this whole discussion is about large scale processing. What you've done is essentially hijacked the thread.

This particular discussion is regarding performing this process on a commercial scale, for some justification the OP tried to make, which is something reflected in peoples responses (why they keep bringing up economy).

There's no need for such an attitude, given that everyone else hear is still on topic and you are the one who is not.
 
  • #39
Point taken; I'm new here.

I tried to start what I thought was a new thread, but as it turned out, it attach to this one. I think if you'll read my initial post, it was written from the point of view that I couldn't hop onto an existing thread; thinking I was starting my own thread, I proceed, but it somehow landed here. I didn't design the board, but my apologies anyway. I will try to start a new thread in a different category.

As for the "attitude", again my apologies, my bad. . . . . . Mac
 

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