Adiabatic filling of a tank - Minimum work required

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of calculating the minimum work required for the adiabatic filling of a tank with ethane from a high-pressure line. Participants explore the thermodynamic principles involved, including energy balances and the application of the ideal gas law, while considering the specific conditions of the filling process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in determining the minimum and real work required for filling a tank adiabatically with ethane from a line at specified conditions.
  • Another participant questions the applicability of the ideal gas law to ethane under the given temperature and pressure conditions.
  • A participant suggests using the first law of thermodynamics and the ideal gas law to relate work and internal energy changes.
  • Concerns are raised about the inability to apply the ideal gas law due to the availability of heat capacity data as polynomials, complicating the calculations.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of energy balance, stating that certain terms in the energy equation are zero due to the nature of the filling process.
  • There is a suggestion to consider the conditions under which the minimum work would occur, prompting further exploration of the process type required for minimum work.
  • Participants discuss the need to find changes in internal energy and enthalpy to relate them to work done on the gas.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the ideal gas law and the correct formulation of the energy balance. There is no consensus on the method to calculate the minimum work required, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the specific heat capacity data for ethane and the unresolved mathematical steps related to the energy balance and work calculations.

alystar
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Hi guys, need an help about that problem
That's an adiabatic filling of a reservoir (tank) from a line.
Line is at 350 K and 8 MPa. The tank is, in the final state, at 365 K and 6 MPa.
Tank is insulated (no heat exchanged during the process), and only one stream enter in the tank.
How can i find the minimum work to be done to make the filling? And how can i find the "real work" to be done to make the filling?

Thanks a lot...
 
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alystar said:
Hi guys, need an help about that problem
That's an adiabatic filling of a reservoir (tank) from a line.
Line is at 350 K and 8 MPa. The tank is, in the final state, at 365 K and 6 MPa.
Tank is insulated (no heat exchanged during the process), and only one stream enter in the tank.
How can i find the minimum work to be done to make the filling? And how can i find the "real work" to be done to make the filling?
Thanks a lot...
Welcome to PF alystar!

How about telling us what you are filling the tank with?

AM
 
Thanks for your welcome!
Sorry, thought the procedure (energy balance or kind of) was almost independent from the kind of substance involved. :) Substance is Ethane.
I've to do the same, also, with Acetylene, but on different pressures and temperatures conditions. (the one I've wrote above are about Ethane).

Thanks!
 
We just need to know if you can apply the ideal gas law. Ethane can be modeled as an ideal gas in this temperature range. We also have to know its heat capacity (constant volume) CV

Start by using the first law of thermodynamics: ##Q = \Delta U + W##. Since Q = 0 (adiabatic) what is the relationship between W and U? Using the ideal gas law and the CV for Ethane, can you determine the ##\Delta U##? Can you then relate that to W?

AM
 
Nope, ideal gas law cannot be applied. Data for Cp are available as polynomial as function of temperature, so i cannot give you an exact value right now.
The energy balance for the system is:
d(U)/d(t)= (Mass flow in*)Enthalpy In - (Mass flow out)*Enthalpy out + Heat exchanged + Work

where U is the internal energy and "t" is time.
The three last terms are = 0, because there's no mass flow out, no heat exchanged, and no work of deformation done (because the volume of the tank is constant, there's no work done through areas which are not crossed by streams). I'm sure about that energy balance because it had been already applied to another similar tank filling.
Therefore, that's why I'm really in trouble. No idea about a formula in order to get the minimum work.
Right now i calculated the Enthalpy difference H(f)-H(e), where H(f) is the final enthalpy of the tank at the end of the filling, and H(e) is the enthalpy of the line (costant during the filling). I calculated H(f)-H(e) because it was needed in order to get the final status of the tank at the end of the filling.
I'm pretty sure that difference it's necessary in order to calculate the minimum work. Still thinking about a simple relationship between the already found enthalpy and something else, like entrophy. (of course suitable for that case, an adiabatic and not-closed system)
 
alystar said:
Nope, ideal gas law cannot be applied. Data for Cp are available as polynomial as function of temperature, so i cannot give you an exact value right now.
The energy balance for the system is:
d(U)/d(t)= (Mass flow in*)Enthalpy In - (Mass flow out)*Enthalpy out + Heat exchanged + Work

where U is the internal energy and "t" is time.
OK But the units are not quite right. Should it not be:

##d(U)/d(t)= (\Delta H_{in})dm_{in}/dt- (\Delta H_{out})dm_{out}/dt + dQ_{exch}/dt + dW/dt ## ?

This is simply a restatement of the first law:

##\Delta U = Q + W ## where W is the work done on the system

As far as the minimum work, under what conditions would the work be minimum (think of the process - what kind of process would require minimum work?)

The three last terms are = 0, because there's no mass flow out, no heat exchanged, and no work of deformation done (because the volume of the tank is constant, there's no work done through areas which are not crossed by streams). I'm sure about that energy balance because it had been already applied to another similar tank filling.

Can you find ##\Delta U## per unit mass? and the ##\Delta Q## per unit mass (i.e. ##\Delta H_{in}##) for the process?

The net change in internal energy has to equal the change in enthalpy + work done on the gas. So if you can find ##\Delta U##? and ##\Delta Q## you can find W.

AM
 
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