Air resistance, changing position in free fall?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of two sticks dropped from the same height, one with a manual fan attached and the other without. Participants explore how the presence of the fan affects the motion of the stick, particularly in terms of air resistance, rotation, and the timing of impact with the ground. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding forces and motion in free fall.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that the stick with the fan will tilt upwards, generating more air resistance, and thus should land on the side without the fan first, assuming air resistance does not completely negate this effect.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that the non-fan side of the stick with the fan would hit the ground first, suggesting that the fan's torque may not affect the linear velocity significantly, but could increase air drag.
  • A later reply clarifies that the fan referred to is a manual fan, not a rotating one, and argues that this would lead to the non-fan side hitting the ground first due to the rotation of the stick.
  • One participant notes that the same effect causing rotation also introduces an upward force from the fan, which could slow the fall of the center of mass, suggesting a complex interaction between forces.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that there exists a parameter space where the stick with the fan could hit the ground first under certain conditions, but also acknowledges scenarios where the stick without the fan could land first.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the impact of the fan on the falling sticks, with no consensus reached on which stick would hit the ground first. Multiple competing perspectives remain regarding the effects of air resistance and rotation.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss various assumptions, such as the neglect of certain forces and the conditions under which the experiment is conducted, which may influence the outcomes of their hypotheses.

Henrybar
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Let's say that I have a stick with weight evenly distributed throughout. I attach a fan to one end of the stick, then balance it from its new centre of mass. I measure the distance from the ground to the stick then drop it. The stick tilts up towards the side generating more air resistance (fan attached) and lands on the side with no fan first. This is a hypothetical situation, so the numeric values for mass, surface area, distance from ground, air pressure, and weight are those which make this motion possible.

Compare this to an identical stick with no fan attached. I drop the stick from the same distance, under the same conditions, and from its centre of mass. While the stick is falling, it maintains its horizontal position unlike the other stick; it lands horizontally as well.

Shouldn't stick 1 touch the ground first?
- Assume that air resistance isn't great enough that it cancel out this effect and instead slows it down
 
Physics news on Phys.org
What makes you think the non-fan side of stick 1 would hit the ground first?

If the fan is rotating, blowing air, then the stick is going to be constantly rotating. In fact, if the fan is blowing perfectly perpendicular to the stick, then the force from the fan will create torque and won't affect the linear velocity of the stick at all (granted, just having the fan on the stick probably increases air drag to some extent, so the stick with the fan will probably fall at least a little slower, but not because of the fan blowing).

I guess the laws of probability dictate that the rotating stick will have one end lower than the center of mass, and therefore one end of the rotating stick should hit the ground before the horizontal stick.
 
BobG said:
What makes you think the non-fan side of stick 1 would hit the ground first?

If the fan is rotating, blowing air, then the stick is going to be constantly rotating. In fact, if the fan is blowing perfectly perpendicular to the stick, then the force from the fan will create torque and won't affect the linear velocity of the stick at all (granted, just having the fan on the stick probably increases air drag to some extent, so the stick with the fan will probably fall at least a little slower, but not because of the fan blowing).

I guess the laws of probability dictate that the rotating stick will have one end lower than the center of mass, and therefore one end of the rotating stick should hit the ground before the horizontal stick.
 
"Fan" as in a manual fan, not a fan that rotates and blows air.
 
Henrybar said:
Let's say that I have a stick with weight evenly distributed throughout. I attach a fan to one end of the stick, then balance it from its new centre of mass. I measure the distance from the ground to the stick then drop it. The stick tilts up towards the side generating more air resistance (fan attached) and lands on the side with no fan first.
Here you posit a force which retards the acceleration of the stick, granted, an asymmetric force, but a force non-the-less.

Henrybar said:
- Assume that air resistance isn't great enough that it cancel out this effect and instead slows it down
Here you state the the force which retards the acceleration of the stick should be neglected.

So you're asking what would happen in a situation given a force which we are supposed to neglect.
 
Henrybar said:
"Fan" as in a manual fan, not a fan that rotates and blows air.
Then stick 1 hits the ground first.

The center of mass of each should hit the ground at the same time. By rotating to a vertical position, one end of stick 1 will be lower than its center of mass and will hit first.
 
The same effect that induces rotation also slows the fall of the center of mass, as both come from an upwards force on the fan.

There is a region in parameter space where object 1 hits the ground first (in general, a low-mass, high air drag fan and a very small dropping distance), but it is also possible (and more realistic) to make stick 2 hit the ground first.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
12
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K