Alternate derivation of general relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of deriving general relativity through the lens of pseudo Riemannian manifolds and the implications of rescaling the speed of light (c). Participants explore theoretical frameworks, historical context, and potential contradictions arising from such rescaling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a pseudo Riemann manifold with a Lorentz metric could be obtained through local rescaling of c.
  • Another participant suggests a connection to Weyl's theory, referencing a specific chapter from a book for further context.
  • A participant expresses curiosity about the contents of the referenced chapter and speculates that there may be a simple explanation for why rescaling c might not be valid.
  • Discussion includes a claim that allowing a "scale" recalibration of the metric from point to point results in only the curl of the scale being observable, which led Weyl to consider it analogous to the electromagnetic vector potential.
  • There is a mention of Einstein's realization that such a recalibration could imply that clocks would depend on their history, which contradicts the stability of atomic spectra, raising questions about the validity of this assertion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are multiple competing views regarding the implications of rescaling c and its compatibility with established theories.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of clarity on the specific implications of rescaling c and the historical context of Weyl's theory, as well as unresolved questions about the stability of atomic spectra in relation to the proposed ideas.

Phrak
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Would a pseudo Riemann manifold with Lorentz metric be obtained upon local rescaling of c?
 
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(In retrospect, I really should have put a large question mark in thread title.)

How do you come up with this stuff, atyy? More than once you've come up with a useful source or pdf that I've downloaded or marked.

But, I can't view the contents of Ch. 4, so I can't tell if the author discusses it. Care to clue me in?

There's probable some very simple explanation of why rescaling c doesn't work though.
 
Phrak said:
(In retrospect, I really should have put a large question mark in thread title.)

How do you come up with this stuff, atyy? More than once you've come up with a useful source or pdf that I've downloaded or marked.

But, I can't view the contents of Ch. 4, so I can't tell if the author discusses it. Care to clue me in?

There's probable some very simple explanation of why rescaling c doesn't work though.

Does this work any better (I think it's a link to Ch 4 directly)? http://books.google.com/books?id=N8JDSi_eNbwC&printsec=frontcover#PPA78,M1
 
Apparently if you impose allow a "scale" recalibration of the metric from point to point, only the curl of the scale is observable, which made Weyl think it could be the electromagnetic vector potential. According to this article, Einstein realized this would make clocks depend on their history, in contradiction to the existence of stable atomic spectra. Hmmm, is that really known to be true?

Early History of Gauge Theories and Kaluza-Klein Theories, with a Glance at Recent Developments
Lochlain O'Raifeartaigh, Norbert Straumann
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/9810524
 

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