Can I Get Into Grad School Despite My Low GPA and Age?

[Delong]

This is almost a different topic. Industrial work did at one time offer more product development positions than it does now. Companies seem to focus more on selling products, production quality control, because product development is much more expensive. Companies want to have a profit and put most of their efforts into selling and production to meet shipments of products, which means big emphasis on quality control for production. This means, technicians in laboratories do routine testing and give corrective instructions and take the stress which comes with that. You want to look for positions in product development, but you might need to accept some kind of q.c. job.

Yea I applied to some quality control jobs and got an interview for three of them. I didn't take them seriously at the time because my mind was set on graudate school. They all seemed to lose interest once I mentioned graduate school. Every single one of them... I don't know sigh

 

[symbolipoint]

Yea I applied to some quality control jobs and got an interview for three of them. I didn't take them seriously at the time because my mind was set on graudate school. They all seemed to lose interest once I mentioned graduate school. Every single one of them... I don't know sigh

The companies are afraid you would leave the job for graduate school, so will try to hire someone who would stay instead. These companies may see you as potential grad school material, contrary to the trouble you have found getting acceptance to any graduate school.

 

[Delong]

The companies are afraid you would leave the job for graduate school, so will try to hire someone who would stay instead. These companies may see you as potential grad school material, contrary to the trouble you have found getting acceptance to any graduate school.

Well if i don't get into any school again i think i'll take those job interviews more seriously. Just settle for an industrial job and try to be happy with "less".
That will be my plan b then once i get all my replies. Thamks again online person for your patient advice

 

[Vanadium 50]

. I'm sick and tired of all these people saying I have a bad application. I DON'T have that THAT bad of an application!

Don't take our word for it. The universities that have declined to accept you have come to that conclusion.

And why is your GPA low? In this thread you say

Everytime I try to do homework my mind wanders and I wind up playing online chess games for three hours. I try to pull myself back to homework but after like five minutes I want to play another chess game again. If it's not a chess game it's some kind of online distraction like facebook or whatever.

And in another thread you say

Looking through my transcript I realize that only a handful of times I ever got an A. Most of the time a B and quite a few times C or lower. What sucks is that I got Cs in classes crucial to my major.

You made bad decisions in the past, and now you are facing their consequences. It's not our fault that you made these bad decisions. Blaming us won't help.

They all seemed to lose interest once I mentioned graduate school.

Of course they did. You told them that you weren't really interested in their offer because you were really interested in something else. If you tell them that you want them to pay you and train you, and just about the time you start to get productive you plan to zip off to grad school, why are you surprised that their reaction is not "Gotta get me some of that!"

 

[Delong]

Don't take our word for it. The universities that have declined to accept you have come to that conclusion.

And why is your GPA low? In this thread you say
And in another thread you say
You made bad decisions in the past, and now you are facing their consequences. It's not our fault that you made these bad decisions. Blaming us won't help.
Of course they did. You told them that you weren't really interested in their offer because you were really interested in something else. If you tell them that you want them to pay you and train you, and just about the time you start to get productive you plan to zip off to grad school, why are you surprised that their reaction is not "Gotta get me some of that!"

My GPA is not low. Its just very mediocre. Getting distracted is pretty normal doing homework. I still managed to finish it.

My application is not bad. Its just not the most outstanding. My question is if i can make it anyway.

Its not my decision to get a c. I tried my best for the class. Like i said i took the hardest classes at my school and often at the same time. I wasnt veing lazy i just was being glutinous.

Im not surprised that employers were turned down. I didnt really want their jobs anyway. In my mind grad school was the only real option.

 

[Vanadium 50]

My application is not bad.

Obviously, since after four years of trying to get into grad school you still haven't been accepted, the universities disagree.

You asked for our advice. Mine is to apply to a broader range of schools. You clearly don't like that, and would rather continue on the same path - one that hasn't worked out for you so far. Your choice.

 

[Mark44]

My GPA is not low. Its just very mediocre. Getting distracted is pretty normal doing homework. I still managed to finish it.

Starting your homework, and then spending three hours playing online chess, followed by five minutes of doing homework, and then checking Facebook doesn't sound productive to me. And "finishing" the homework doesn't address the quality of what you turned in. Based on the number of courses in which you received C or lower grades, your strategy doesn't seem very sound to me.

My application is not bad. Its just not the most outstanding. My question is if i can make it anyway.

Its not my decision to get a c. I tried my best for the class.

Based on the study habits you described, it was your decision to get a C. If you had spent your time studying the materials for your class, and not wasting it playing chess and going on Facebook, it seems likely to me that your grades would have been higher.

Like i said i took the hardest classes at my school and often at the same time. I wasnt veing lazy i just was being glutinous.

Im not surprised that employers were turned down. I didnt really want their jobs anyway. In my mind grad school was the only real option.

 

[micromass]

My application is not bad.

What do you gain from this kind of denial? Your application is bad, period. You have handful of A's, a mediocre GPA, a bad history. That's a pretty bad application. You should face this and draw conclusions from it. Being in denial for years and applying to top schools clearly didn't pay off. Realize that you have a bad application and apply to more reasonable schools.

Like i said i took the hardest classes at my school and often at the same time.

No excuse. Other students do that too and they do succeed. You didn't. That doesn't mean you're not smart, it just means that for whatever reason, you didn't succeed. And grad schools see this and will think you won't succeed in their program either. You need to give them some kind of reason why the same won't happen in grad school.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Obviously, since after four years of trying to get into grad school you still haven't been accepted, the universities disagree.

You asked for our advice. Mine is to apply to a broader range of schools. You clearly don't like that, and would rather continue on the same path - one that hasn't worked out for you so far. Your choice.

What Delong will probably want to know (and what I'm curious about as well) is what would constitute a "broader range of schools". Could you give a more specific reference point on how to determine this, using physics as an example (since you're a physicist)? I know the answer won't specifically be applicable to Delong (since he applied to biology graduate programs), but some clarification would give him some idea as to how assess what graduate programs is worth applying to.

If you are not able to state what the "broader range" would be, then you're essentially giving useless advice.

 

[Delong]

Alright you guys don't draw conclusions about me from almost nothing.

'sUre I've gotten distracted before but that doesn't describe my entire half decade at college.

I am a good student i pay attention to lecture, ask questions, and read the book ahead of time. i just wasnt goood enough for reasons not obvious to me.

Id have to slowly analyze my past eight years of life. Dont just make conclusions about me across a screen.

 

[Delong]

What do you gain from this kind of denial? Your application is bad, period. You have handful of A's, a mediocre GPA, a bad history. That's a pretty bad application. You should face this and draw conclusions from it. Being in denial for years and applying to top schools clearly didn't pay off. Realize that you have a bad application and apply to more reasonable schools.
No excuse. Other students do that too and they do succeed. You didn't. That doesn't mean you're not smart, it just means that for whatever reason, you didn't succeed. And grad schools see this and will think you won't succeed in their program either. You need to give them some kind of reason why the same won't happen in grad school.

I have been applying to more reasonable schools. I am still waiting to hear back from five of them.

I don't have a bad application. I have all the basic requirements. Its just not the best of the best which I am fine with. All of this putdown is not necessary at all.

 

[micromass]

Dont just make conclusions avout me across a computer screen

That's the point though. The admission committee will have about the same information as us. Sure, they will have a bit more: content of letters, your detailed grades. But nothing more. The entire job of the admission committee is to make an assessment about you from very limited information. And that's exactly what we do too. And our assessment is that you have a bad application and should apply to a very broad list of schools.

Don't take this too personal. We're not saying you're dumb. We're not saying you won't be a good scientist. We're just saying what your chances are for getting into grad school. We're just trying to assess what the admission committee will think.

And really, your title is "Am I ready for grad school?", so you want an evaluation on whether you're ready for grad school or not. We did exactly that. If you feel we don't have enough information, then either provide us the information or don't ask us to assess you.

 

[micromass]

I don't have a bad application.

If you would have a good application, you would have gotten into grad school by now. Stop hiding from the truth. Your application IS bad. Again, that doesn't imply your dumb or that you would be a bad scientist. I've known many genius people who had bad applications and who eventually did great things later in their career. Don't take it personal. Just use the information to get where you want to be.

 

[Delong]

Well i have applied to a broader range. So far I'm waiting to hear back from indiana u, michigan state, northeastern, penn state, and georgia state.

All i need is just one yes. Then i won't have to think about this tiring process again. SIgh.

I'm afraid to hope but i think i can get into at least one of them.

 

[Vanadium 50]

What Delong will probably want to know (and what I'm curious about as well) is what would constitute a "broader range of schools". Could you give a more specific reference point on how to determine this, using physics as an example (since you're a physicist)? I know the answer won't specifically be applicable to Delong (since he applied to biology graduate programs), but some clarification would give him some idea as to how assess what graduate programs is worth applying to.

It's a problem, because I am not a biologist. It's also a problem because Delong has rejected this advice in #16.

However, if he wanted to, he can find or figure out what the biology rankings are. I would imagine that the sort of places that might fit are non-flagship state universities and lower-tier private universities.

If you are not able to state what the "broader range" would be, then you're essentially giving useless advice.

Of course the advice is useless. It's after he applied, and it's after he ignored the similar advice that he got last year. Besides, what he's really asking for isn't advice, it's validation. But that's not going to help him reach his goals.

 

[Mark44]

I am a good student i pay attention to lecture, ask questions, and read the book ahead of time. i just wasnt goood enough for reasons not obvious to me.

Some reasons not obvious to you can be found in a thread you started about three years ago, titled "How can I be a be less disorganized and lazy?".

I feel like I'm a very bad student. Everytime I try to do homework my mind wanders and I wind up playing online chess games for three hours. I try to pull myself back to homework but after like five minutes I want to play another chess game again. If it's not a chess game it's some kind of online distraction like facebook or whatever. I feel cursed it's like I simply can't sit down and do homework for a good solid period of time. I always find distractions, no matter how hard I try. What's wrong with me? What can I do, I know I actually like the material, in class I follow along with everything. I find the subjects fascinating. It's just when it comes to doing work I get so lazy I hate it. I find distractions and three hours later I realize I wasted all my time. And then I'll go to class and find that I missed a homework assignment or that I forgot we had a test.

I think there is a part of me that just resists working too hard. I don't want my life to be consumed by work, no matter how important it may seem. Although I do love learning and science and there is nothing else in life I'd rather do, but still I like to have tons of down time.

 

[Delong]

Some reasons not obvious to you can be found in a thread you started about three years ago, titled "How can I be a be less disorganized and lazy?".

Oh wow that brings me back. Yea I feel really attentive when I get to class. But when I get home I usually seem to lose focus. I probably should have gotten a job to sharpen my focus all day long. I don't know whatever I don't know.

 

[Delong]

In any case I'll just wait to hear from the schools and if I don't get in again I'll consider making a career with just a bachelor's degree and forget about graduate school entirely. I'll just wait and see.

 

[Delong]

Looking back at my college years i am disappointed with my grades. I don't think i deserve grades that low to be honest. I focused on my own interests and less on what answers the professor wanted to hear.

I guess especially with my biochemistry class i didnt think the material was so hard but my professor graded very hard for reasons that elude me. ANd as for my molecular genetics class the style of the class was so different from the rest of my schooling that i couldn't get it down within one quarter.

But i did relatively well in my chemistry and math classes.

I also probably should have looked for jobs that use what I am learning in class. That way i would have a separate way of keeping the material fresh in my mind other than just a classroom.

I believe i can do that right now although i was preoccupied with grad school for the time being.

 

[Delong]

Im looking at my grades now and i see i have good grades in organic chemistry (fun class), electrochemistry (fun class), analytical chemistry (blegh boring sorry), calculus, vector calculus (so fun), linear algebra (boring for me), general physics, quantum mechanics (cool stuff), probability and statistics (really awesome class).

I got a c in genetics, molecular biology, biochemistry which really hit me hard as a biochemistry major argh. But my grades are good for all the requirements leading up to those classes. I think the style of those classes and the hard grading made me not prepared for them.

I also have a c in advanced quantum mechanics, quantum chemistry, and differential equations but i don't think biology programs will care as much about that. Although i personally care since math and physics are what got me into science in the first place.

In fact i would say quantum chemistry and vector calculus were my favorite classes in college but yea anyway.

 

[Delong]

I think to beef up my application i should retake genetics, biochemistry, and molecular biology since those are like the mainstays of modern biology.

I would also like to have a better grade in differential equations and thermodynamics but i think the biology classes are more essential for my future and not just my own personal interests.

 

[Mondayman]

i am disappointed with my grades. I don't think i deserve grades that low to be honest.

I hate to repeat what's already been said, but

"Everytime I try to do homework my mind wanders and I wind up playing online chess games for three hours. I try to pull myself back to homework but after like five minutes I want to play another chess game again. If it's not a chess game it's some kind of online distraction like facebook or whatever. I feel cursed it's like I simply can't sit down and do homework for a good solid period of time. I always find distractions, no matter how hard I try."

and

I focused on my own interests and less on what answers the professor wanted to hear.

tells me that you got the grades you deserve. I'm certain you are capable of doing better - after all, even with these poor study habits you still managed a 3.0. But you get what you put in. If you focus more on chess than you do schoolwork, then a C sounds rightly deserved to me.

 

[symbolipoint]

Obviously, since after four years of trying to get into grad school you still haven't been accepted, the universities disagree.

You asked for our advice. Mine is to apply to a broader range of schools. You clearly don't like that, and would rather continue on the same path - one that hasn't worked out for you so far. Your choice.

Either that, or keep looking for a job. You need to be dedicated to whichever way you decide. If you're still trying to manage both at the same time in planning, then be careful what you say to employment interviewers.

 

[Student100]

Looking back at my college years i am disappointed with my grades. I don't think i deserve grades that low to be honest. I focused on my own interests and less on what answers the professor wanted to hear.

Just because you don't feel like you deserve a grade doesn't mean it isn't the grade you earned. You earned those C's, and from the sound of it, it was a conscious decision on your part - not because the course work was too rough for you.

I think to beef up my application i should retake genetics, biochemistry, and molecular biology since those are like the mainstays of modern biology.

Look for a masters program or bridge program, learn from your mistakes and realize that you can only control so much as far as accomplishing your desires and goals. In the example of wanting to go graduate school and being a scientist, those things which you have to power the influence are your grades, reputation, and work ethic. At some point you have to decide if you want to put the work into fulfill those goals, or regret what could have been for the rest of your life, or simply that you'd rather do something else entirely. You can't control admission committees, or where you eventually get accepted. Any minor tweaks to your application at this point are not going to suddenly make you competitive at schools were the number of applicants far exceed the number of slots.

Foolishness is continuing to try to do the same things and expecting different results.

 

[Delong]

Well i only got a c in my biology classes. When i look at my other science classes i didnt do so badly imo. Switching between dry and wet science probably was just too hard a balancing act for me.

I don't think its fair to treat my past self so harshly since i was just a silly 20 year old who is still learning how the real world works.

Its not useful to beat over the past. If I don't get in again ill have to retake biochemistry and molecular biology at a nearby university and do much better than before. Ill focus on the classes i know i need and not just what i find really interesting. I am not a 21 year old anymore I am a little older and i know what i should focus on and what i should ignore...

 

[Delong]

And honestly I appreciate all the judgments *ahem* excuse me I meant "advice" but I think I've heard enough from retired professors who are used to being on the top and not having their lives affected and determined by other peoples decisions.

If there were more people in my shoes on this site I'd probably appreciate hearing from them more but being what it is I probably brought my malaise to the wrong place.

So thanks anyway for the help but I think I get the point by now.

 

[symbolipoint]

And honestly i appreciate all the judgments (ahem) excuse me i meant "advice" but i think I've heard enough from retired professors who are used to being on the top and not having their lives affected and determined by other peoples decisions.

If there were more people in my shoes on this site id probably appreciate hearing from them more but being what it is i probably brought my malaise to the wrong place.

So thanks anyway for the help but i think i get the point by now.

Psychological progress well on its way now so that's good.

Learning how to be honest with yourself should help you figure what to do.

The posts now becoming long with some long discussion posts on the topic, graduate school entrance seems to be a competitive situation. Some conditions have changed or become stricter as everything progresses. I talked to a couple of technical and science people with Master's degrees who worked in their fields. They were as well as I could tell, average people who were accepted - MORE THAN 50 YEARS AGO. One was a chemist at a time when we needed more "trained" and educated scientific people, and maybe not enough students were studying such sciences while the society really needed some technological advances made. Possibly fewer course requirements were in place at that time and some elective course choices made him competitive enough to be accepted to a Masters degree program. He worked somewhere along the way. Another person was an engineer who struggled with some courses, especially some of the Calculus required in the undergrad level. Still since much of his academic work including in the Master's program was for the newer field of computer science, and maybe fewer applicants were available while we needed more technical and scientific people (even if toward engineering), he managed to be accepted for this advanced degree program, finished, and worked.

These days, employers often want people who are more qualified (more than Bachelor degree), not less qualified. More students are trying to get into graduate degree programs, so this puts limits on how many can get into them. One needs stronger qualifications now to be judged as competitive to handle a graduate degree program.

 

[Dishsoap]

And honestly I appreciate all the judgments *ahem* excuse me I meant "advice" but I think I've heard enough from retired professors who are used to being on the top and not having their lives affected and determined by other peoples decisions.

If there were more people in my shoes on this site I'd probably appreciate hearing from them more but being what it is I probably brought my malaise to the wrong place.

So thanks anyway for the help but I think I get the point by now.

Many of the people who have responded to this post (Dr. Courtney, ZapperZ, V50) are current professors. You know, like the ones who will be on the admissions committee reviewing your application. And they have reviewed applications on admissions committees previously. Your inability to accept your failures and learn from mistakes is shown not only in grades, but also in the way that you responded throughout this thread. Even if you had a 4.0, no one in this thread would agree that you are ready for grad school based simply on your response to criticism.

 

[Delong]

Many of the people who have responded to this post (Dr. Courtney, ZapperZ, V50) are current professors. You know, like the ones who will be on the admissions committee reviewing your application. And they have reviewed applications on admissions committees previously. Your inability to accept your failures and learn from mistakes is shown not only in grades, but also in the way that you responded throughout this thread. Even if you had a 4.0, no one in this thread would agree that you are ready for grad school based simply on your response to criticism.

V50 is a staff emiritus which means he has retired. Zapperz has not commented on my forum but he is also an emiritus. Dr. Courtney disappeared after around post #10.

Ok ill admit that I am not good with criticism but id like to see who in this human world is. All of the advice on the forum I've accepted but many commenters feels fitted to put me down as well not just professors but unaccomplished students just like myself.

This is not an environment i very much ask for or need.

 

[Mark44]

V50 is a staff emiritus which means he has retired. Zapperz has not commented on my forum but he is also an emiritus.

"Staff emeritus" means that they have retired from mentorship on this forum. It has nothing to do with whether they are currently teaching.

Dr. Courtney disappeared after around post #10.

Ok ill admit that I am not good with criticism but id like to see who in this human world is. All of the advice on the forum I've accepted but many commenters feels fitted to put me down as well not just professors but unaccomplished students just like myself.

Speaking for myself, I quoted things that you said about yourself. IMO, these self-admitted traits explain pretty well why you are in the situtuation you describe.

This is not an environment i very much ask for or need.

If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

 

[Delong]

"Staff emeritus" means that they have retired from mentorship on this forum.

Speaking for myself, I quoted things that you said about yourself. IMO, these self-admitted traits explain pretty well why you are in the situtuation you describe.

If you don't want to hear the answer, don't ask the question.

What kind of crappy useless label is that? who cares if you were successful on this forum?

I don't think I deserve bad grades. I simply took on more than I could handle at one time. I'm a little bit older now and I know I am capable. I just had to learn timing and spacing. That's a far cry from the responses I'm getting about how I'm a "failure". Again this is not feedback I find constructive in much any way.

 

[Delong]

I think I'd prefer feedback from people around my age level and stage of career development in science. Not so much seasoned professors.

 

[Mondayman]

What kind of crappy useless label is that? who cares if you were successful on this forum?

I don't think I deserve bad grades

Echoing dishoap's sentiment, even if you had a 4.0, this kind of attitude will definitely hold you back.

I think I'd prefer feedback from people around my age level and stage of career development in science. Not so much seasoned professors.

You'd prefer potentially misleading or harmful advice over valid, unbiased advice?

 

[Student100]

Let's not fall prey to obvious trolling.

 

[Delong]

I found this from one of my old threads 3 years ago: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/stressing-out-over-grad-school-apps.732993/

Hi everyone, I'm applying to grad school and I find the process extremely stressful. Today I got almost/maybe rejected from my third graduate school and I am completely freaking out. This one was one I was actually pretty hopeful I can get in. I still have four other schools I applied to but if this trend continues I might not get into any. Getting into grad school and pursuing life as a scientist has always been my dream. All my future plans rides on this. When I got the news today that I may be rejected I was so stressed I actually had to find a place to sit down and control my breathing. I feel like my organs are ripping apart from all the adrenaline. Can someone offer me any words of comfort or ease please?

I don't think people on here realize how much stress rejection causes me. I've already recuperated and tried again for a second time. I don't need people who don't understand my situation to put me down.

Echoing dishoap's sentiment, even if you had a 4.0, this kind of attitude will definitely hold you back.You'd prefer potentially misleading or harmful advice over valid, unbiased advice?

And who might I ask you are? A guitarist?