Angular Frequency of a Piston with Ideal Gas

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a frictionless piston in a vertical cylindrical container filled with an ideal gas, where the pressure and volume change slowly and isothermally. The goal is to determine the differential equation of motion for small displacements of the piston around its equilibrium position and calculate the angular frequency of oscillation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between pressure and position of the piston, with some questioning the effects of gravity on the system. There are attempts to derive the equation of motion and explore the implications of isothermal conditions.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with some providing hints and guidance on how to approach the linearization of equations. There is recognition of the need to substitute variables and eliminate constants to progress towards the differential equation.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of gravity's role in the equilibrium conditions and the need to consider small displacements, which may influence the assumptions made in the derivation of the equations.

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Homework Statement


A frictionless piston of mass m is a precise fit in the vertical cylindrical neck of a large container of volume V. The container is filled with an ideal gas and there is a vacuum above the piston. The cross-sectional area of the neck is A. Assuming that the pressure and volume of the gas change slowly and isothermally, determine the differential equation of motion for small displacements of the piston about its equilibrium position and hence calculate the angular frequency of oscillation.

$$m = 0.1 \rm{kg}$$
$$V = 0.1 \rm{m^{3}}$$
$$A = \pi*10^{-4} \rm{m^{2}}$$

Homework Equations


Ideal Gas: $$PV=nRT$$
Isothermal: $$P_{1}V_{1}=P_{2}V_{2}$$
Newton's 2nd: $$F=ma$$
Pressure: $$P=\frac{F}{A}$$

3. The Attempt at a Solution

As the process is isothermal:
$$P_{0}V_{0}=PV$$
If $$x$$ is the position of the piston and $$x_{0}$$ is the equilibrium position:
$$P_{0}Ax_{0}=PAx$$
So:
$$P=P_{0}\frac{x_{0}}{x}$$

At any point in time:
$$ma = PA$$

Substituting for the pressure into the above:
$$ma = \frac{P_{0}Ax_{0}}{x}$$
$$ma = \frac{P_{0}V_{0}}{x}$$

As a differential:
$$m\frac{\mathrm{d}^2 x}{\mathrm{d} t^2} - \frac{P_{0}V_{0}}{x} = 0$$

This is non-linear so I can't solve it for the angular frequency. Been looking at this for a while so have I made silly errors or am I just approaching this completely wrong?
Any help or hints appreciated :).

P.S. Sorry for the awkward formatting. How do I do inline equations?
 
Last edited:
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phys3107_ said:
At any point in time:
ma=PA​
Gravity?
 
As Haruspex was hinting at, the equation should be $$ma=A(P-P_0)$$Can you figure out why?
 
Sorry for the late reply, I decided to revisit it a day later after I realized the gravity blunder. I managed to get that equation, Chestermiller.
At any point in time:
$$ma = PA - mg$$
But we also know mg from equilibrium conditions:
$$mg = P_{0}A$$
So:
$$ma = A(P - P_{0})$$

So do I now just need to find P as a function of x?
 
phys3107_ said:
Sorry for the late reply, I decided to revisit it a day later after I realized the gravity blunder. I managed to get that equation, Chestermiller.
At any point in time:
$$ma = PA - mg$$
But we also know mg from equilibrium conditions:
$$mg = P_{0}A$$
So:
$$ma = A(P - P_{0})$$

So do I now just need to find P as a function of x?
You already had P as a function of x. You need to substitute ##x=x_0+\delta## in the equation ##P=\frac{P_0x_0}{x}##, and then linearize with respect to ##\delta##.

You should really write $$P=\frac{P_0V_0}{(V_0+A\delta)}$$and linearize with respect to ##\delta##
 
Last edited:
Thank you although I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "linearize".
 
phys3107_ said:
Thank you although I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "linearize".
Chet means expand the expression into a linear form, c+dδ, by making an approximation that is valid for small δ.
The reference to small displacements in the question is a hint that you need to do this.
 
Chestermiller said:
You already had P as a function of x. You need to substitute ##x=x_0+\delta## in the equation ##P=\frac{P_0x_0}{x}##, and then linearize with respect to ##\delta##.

You should really write $$P=\frac{P_0V_0}{(V_0+A\delta)}$$and linearize with respect to ##\delta##
$$\frac{1}{V_0+A\delta}=\frac{1}{V_0\left(1+\frac{A\delta}{V_0}\right)}\approx \left(\frac{1}{V_0}\right)\left(1-\frac{A\delta}{V_0}\right)$$
 
Ahh I see, I understand the approximation now. So to get to the differential equation I just need to substitute that into ##ma = A(P - P_{0})##?
 
  • #10
phys3107_ said:
Ahh I see, I understand the approximation now. So to get to the differential equation I just need to substitute that into ##ma = A(P - P_{0})##?
Yes, but you also need to eliminate ##P_0## by using ##P_0A=mg##, and you need to express the acceleration in terms of the second derivative of ##\delta##
 
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  • #11
Yes, its clicked now, thank you for your help! The differential is give by:
$$\frac{\mathrm{d}^2 \delta}{\mathrm{d} t^2} + \frac{gA}{V_{0}}\delta = 0$$
So the solution for the angular frequency is:
$$\omega = \sqrt{\frac{gA}{V_{0}}}$$

Correct? :D
 
  • #12
phys3107_ said:
Yes, its clicked now, thank you for your help! The differential is give by:
$$\frac{\mathrm{d}^2 \delta}{\mathrm{d} t^2} + \frac{gA}{V_{0}}\delta = 0$$
So the solution for the angular frequency is:
$$\omega = \sqrt{\frac{gA}{V_{0}}}$$

Correct? :D
Sure.
 
  • #13
phys3107_ said:
Yes, its clicked now, thank you for your help! The differential is give by:
$$\frac{\mathrm{d}^2 \delta}{\mathrm{d} t^2} + \frac{gA}{V_{0}}\delta = 0$$
So the solution for the angular frequency is:
$$\omega = \sqrt{\frac{gA}{V_{0}}}$$

Correct? :D
Sure.
 

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