Another implicit function problem

In summary, the conversation discusses the implicit function theorem and finding a C2 function y(x) that satisfies the given conditions. The two ways to approach this problem are using the implicit function theorem and solving the equation for y(x) using the standard solution for a cubic. The conditions for the implicit function theorem require checking the Jacobian and Hessian matrices, and the conversation ends with a question about determining if there exists a C2 function using a general method.
  • #1
Srumix
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I'm having some trouble grasping the implicit function theroem in some cases. Here's one of them.

Homework Statement



Show that there exist a C2 function y(x) in some neighbourhood of 0 such that y(0) = 0 and

y(x)3 + 3y(x) = x

Find y'(0) and y''(0)

Homework Equations



The implicit function theorem: If there exist a implicit y(x) for function if D2f(a,b) does not equal zero at the point (0,0)

The Attempt at a Solution



I tried differentiating the given function but i then get 3y(x)2*y'(x) + 3*y'(x) = 0.

But given the condition y(0) = 0 this must imply that y'(0) = 0 which is a contradiction?

The problem is given in a way such that there should be such a function, but I'm obviously doing something wrong here.
 
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  • #2
There are two ways that you can go about this, there is the easy way which as you say, use the implicit function theorem (you have to use partial derivatives, you need to calculate the whole matrix of derivatives btw.) and for that you need to calculate partial derivatives, not the total one, the derivative you got wrong, it should be 3y^{2}(x)y'(x)+3y'(x)=1, if you're differentiating w.r.t x.

The other way is to solve the equation for y(x) by using the standard solution for a cubic and verify that the function is indeed C^2 in the neighbourhood of 0.
 
  • #3
Oh yes. Kind of stupid of me to mess upp the derivative.

When you say the matrix of derivatives, do you mean the "jacobian"? Should I calculate the Jacobian first for the first partial derivative and then the jacobian for the second derivative to check that the determinant of the jacobian isn't zero?

Thanks!
 
  • #4
Check out the conditions for the implicit function theorem. You will need to check out the Jacobian.
 
  • #5
hunt_mat said:
Check out the conditions for the implicit function theorem. You will need to check out the Jacobian.

Yeah I think I understood that. However I'm having trouble of how I should do to check that it is actually C2. To check that it is C2, should I insert D2f(x,y) in the second row of the jacobian and keep the first row the same as I did when checking for C1?
 
  • #6
Check out the Hessian matrix then.
 
  • #7
hunt_mat said:
Check out the Hessian matrix then.

I have not much experience with the Hessian. Is it required (in analogue to the Jacobian) that it's determinant isn't equal to zero for the implicit function to be defined as C2? Or is there any other general method to determine wether there exist a C2 function.

Thanks for your help!
 
Last edited:

1. What is an implicit function problem?

An implicit function problem is a mathematical problem that involves finding the relationship between two or more variables without explicitly defining one of the variables in terms of the others. This means that the equation may not be in the standard form of y = f(x), but rather in a more complex form with multiple variables on both sides.

2. How are implicit function problems different from explicit function problems?

The main difference between implicit and explicit function problems is that explicit functions have one variable explicitly defined in terms of the other variables, while implicit functions do not. This makes solving implicit function problems more challenging because the relationship between the variables is not immediately apparent.

3. What are some common techniques for solving implicit function problems?

Some common techniques for solving implicit function problems include implicit differentiation, substitution, elimination, and graphing. These methods can help to isolate one of the variables and determine its relationship to the other variables in the equation.

4. Can implicit function problems be solved analytically or numerically?

Both analytical and numerical methods can be used to solve implicit function problems. Analytical methods involve manipulating the equation algebraically to find a solution, while numerical methods involve using numerical algorithms to approximate a solution.

5. How are implicit function problems used in real-world applications?

Implicit function problems are used in a variety of fields, such as physics, engineering, and economics, to model relationships between variables. They can be used to predict outcomes, optimize processes, and solve complex problems in these fields.

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