Apostol 4.12 #28 - Related Rates Problem

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a right-circular cylinder with a radius that increases at a constant rate, while its altitude is a linear function of the radius, increasing three times as fast as the radius. The scenario provides specific values for the radius and altitude, as well as the rate of volume increase at certain radii, leading to a question about the volume increase rate at a larger radius.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationships between the radius, altitude, and volume of the cylinder, exploring the implications of the rates of change. There is a focus on the setup of equations based on given conditions, and some participants question the correctness of assumptions made in the derivation of these equations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing corrections and clarifications regarding the setup of the problem. There is recognition of potential errors in the implications drawn from the relationships between variables, and some participants are actively working to resolve these discrepancies.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem involves specific values and relationships that must be adhered to, and there is a mention of the need to avoid unnecessary variables in the calculations. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to clarify the mathematical reasoning involved.

process91
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Here is the question verbatim:

The radius of a right-circular cylinder increases at a constant rate. Its altitude is a linear function of the radius and increases three times as fast as the radius. When the radius is 1 foot, the altitude is 6 feet. When the radius is 6 feet, the volume is increasing at a rate of 1 cubic feet per second. When the radius is 36 feet, the volume is increasing at a rate of n cubic feet per second, where n is an integer. Compute n.I set the problem up as follows:
The radius of a right-circular cylinder increases at a constant rate. Then let r be the radius and t be the number of seconds. This implies that \frac{dr}{dt}=c for some constant c.

Its altitude is a linear function of the radius Letting h be the altitude, we have h=ar+b for some constants a and b.
and increases three times as fast as the radius. Then \frac{dh}{dt}=3\frac{dr}{dt}=3c. Also, we have \frac{dh}{dr}=a and so by the chain rule, \frac{dh}{dr}\frac{dr}{dt}=\frac{dh}{dt} \implies a=2c as long as c\ne0, which we will have shortly.

When the radius is 1 foot, the altitude is 6 feet. So 6=2c+b.

When the radius is 6 feet, the volume is increasing at a rate of 1 cubic feet per second. Letting v be the volume, we have \frac{dv}{dt}=1. This is how we know that c\ne0, since \frac{dv}{dt}=\frac{dv}{dr}\frac{dr}{dt}.

Now we work to find n. We have 6=2c+b \implies b=6-2c \implies h=2cr+6-2c. The volume of a right-circular cylinder is given by v = \pi r^2 h =\pi r^2 (2cr+6-2c) = 2c\pi r^3+(6-2c)\pi r^2 and so \frac{dv}{dr}=6c\pi r^2 + 2(6-2c)\pi r. Using the chain rule, we have \frac{dv}{dt}=(6c\pi r^2 + 2(6-2c)\pi r)c and when r=6, 1=(6c\pi 6^2 + 2(6-2c)\pi 6)c which, simplified, is 1=192 \pi c^2+72 \pi c. From this alone, we can see that whatever c is, it is a very complicated number because it must remove the values of pi in the equation. Solving this using the quadratic equation will give us two possible values:
Solved with WolframAlpha

Using the positive one, since the radius is increasing, we should be able to compute \frac{dv}{dt} directly, however for r=36 we don't get an integer.
Final Solution from WolframAlpha

The book's answer is 33. Where did I go wrong?
 
Last edited:
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Hi process91! :smile:

process91 said:
Here is the question verbatim:

The radius of a right-circular cylinder increases at a constant rate. Its altitude is a linear function of the radius and increases three times as fast as the radius. When the radius is 1 foot, the altitude is 6 feet. When the radius is 6 feet, the volume is increasing at a rate of 1 cubic feet per second. When the radius is 36 feet, the volume is increasing at a rate of n cubic feet per second, where n is an integer. Compute n.


I set the problem up as follows:
The radius of a right-circular cylinder increases at a constant rate. Then let r be the radius and t be the number of seconds. This implies that \frac{dr}{dt}=c for some constant c.

Its altitude is a linear function of the radius Letting h be the altitude, we have h=ar+b for some constants a and b.
and increases three times as fast as the radius. Then \frac{dr}{dt}=3\frac{dr}{dt}=3c.

I don't see that. Doesn't the information give you that \frac{dh}{dt}=3c?? You seem to say that \frac{dr}{dt}=3c and I don't see why you would say that.
 
Have a look at this line again (I corrected a typo):

process91 said:
and increases three times as fast as the radius. Then \frac{dh}{dt}=3\frac{dr}{dt}=3c. Also, we have \frac{dh}{dr}=a and so by the chain rule, \frac{dh}{dr}\frac{dr}{dt}=\frac{dh}{dt} \implies a=2c as long as c\ne0, which we will have shortly.

Doesn't this imply ac = 3c ?
 
dynamicsolo said:
Have a look at this line again (I corrected a typo):



Doesn't this imply ac = 3c ?

Yes, that was a typo. I've corrected it in the original problem.
 
OK, that takes care of the typo, but your implication is still incorrect. Also,

process91 said:
When the radius is 1 foot, the altitude is 6 feet. So 6=2c+b.

I think you want to write 6 = 3r + b here. This equation for the height involves r , not dr/dt .
 
dynamicsolo said:
OK, that takes care of the typo, but your implication is still incorrect. Also,



I think you want to write 6 = 3r + b here. This equation for the height involves r , not dr/dt .

What part of the implication is incorrect? Just to make sure we're talking about the same spot, I have that
\frac{dh}{dr}=a and \frac{dr}{dt}=c and \frac{dh}{dt}=3c. Using the chain rule, that implies that ac=3c and, as long as c\ne0, a=2c.

For the part where I write 6 = 2c + b, I am using the given statement that the height is 6 when the radius is 1 and the fact that h=ar+b=2cr+b based on my above implication. Taking r=1 and h=6 yields 6=2c+b.
 
process91 said:
What part of the implication is incorrect? Just to make sure we're talking about the same spot, I have that
\frac{dh}{dr}=a and \frac{dr}{dt}=c and \frac{dh}{dt}=3c. Using the chain rule, that implies that ac=3c and, as long as c\ne0, a=2c.

Yes, but doesn't ac=3c imply that a=3??

For the part where I write 6 = 2c + b, I am using the given statement that the height is 6 when the radius is 1 and the fact that h=ar+b=2cr+b based on my above implication. Taking r=1 and h=6 yields 6=2c+b.
 
micromass said:
Yes, but doesn't ac=3c imply that a=3??

*blink, blink* Yes, it does. I must be tired or something. Thank you so much - I was tearing my hair out. Sometimes it's the little things.

Thanks to dynamicsolo as well, I see that you were also pointing to this flaw.
 
Sleep deprivation (or fatigue) and mathematics don't mix...

By the way, you will never need to use dr/dt for anything -- it can be divided out when you compare dV/dt at r = 6 with dV/dt at r = 36 .
 
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