Are external and internal forces distinct in their effects on objects?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the distinction between external and internal forces in the context of Newtonian physics. Participants explore definitions, implications, and examples of these forces, considering their effects on objects within defined systems.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that external forces act from a distance while internal forces are contact forces, excluding frictional forces.
  • Another participant argues that contact forces can be either internal or external, depending on how the system boundaries are defined.
  • A further contribution clarifies that external forces are those from outside the defined system, while internal forces arise from interactions within the system.
  • A hypothetical scenario is proposed where if the entire universe is considered as the system, all forces would be internal, leading to a question about the net force being zero due to action-reaction pairs.
  • One participant agrees that in a universe described by Newtonian mechanics, the net force would indeed be zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of internal and external forces, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on system boundaries for defining internal and external forces, which may lead to different interpretations and conclusions.

amjad-sh
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Can external forces be considered as the forces acting from a distance and internal forces are the contact forces(except frictional forces)?
since we know that according to Newton 3rd law every object making a force on a second object the second object will make the same force on the first object but in opposite direction.
But in this case if we take for example a certain object if all the forces acting on this object are contact forces(except frictional) then the net force acting on this object is the sum of the internal forces.
 
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Contact forces may be external or internal as may non contact forces. That is not the distinction between internal and external forces.

Forces represent interactions in Newtonian physics. An external force is an interaction between the system and something outside the system. An internal force is an interaction between two different parts of the system.

So internal or external depends on how you draw your system boundaries, which is arbitrary.
 
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No, external forces are forces from objects outside your system that act on constituents of your system. Whether a force is internal or external depends on what you define as your system.
 
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OK.
If the system is the whole universe then all the forces will be internal forces. Does this mean that the net force will be zero as all the internal forces are action-reaction forces?
 
In a universe which is well described by Newtonian mechanics, yes.
 
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Thanks for the replies!
 

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