Are Forbes' College Rankings Accurate?

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Forbes' college rankings have sparked significant debate, particularly regarding their reliance on ratings from ratemyprofessor.com, which some argue does not accurately reflect educational quality. Critics point out that prestigious institutions like UW and Marquette are ranked lower than lesser-known colleges, raising questions about the validity of the rankings. Additionally, there are concerns about the accuracy of cost data presented in the rankings, with discrepancies noted in tuition and fees for different schools. Discussions also highlight the stark contrast in tuition costs between American and Canadian universities, with many Canadians expressing disbelief at the high prices in the U.S. Overall, the rankings are viewed by many as flawed and not representative of true educational value.
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Forbes just came out with their new rankings for America's colleges. Part of the rankings comes from ratemyprofessor.com ratings. Personally I think these rankings are very surprising if not bogus. I live in WI and I can tell you the top 3-4 ranked school in WI in the list are garbage. No way they are better than UW or Marquette. I know a kid who had a 2.4GPA and he got into Ripon College which is ranked 109. While Marquette and UW are in the 300s. Also no way is MSOE worst college in America, this is a crime!

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/94/opinions_college08_Americas-Best-Colleges_Rank.html
 
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My alma mater is listed at 376. That's pretty sick. The engineering school is top-notch and the ability to engage in research in applied technology related to industries important to the state helps keep kids in-state after graduation, even if they might be able to make more money by moving. During my freshman year, I was offered a 5-year pulp-and-paper scholarship in chemical engineering. By then, I had figured out that though I was good at it, I was far more interested in philosophy, English literature, and life sciences, so I turned it down, much to the consternation of the financial aid officer administering that scholarship. He kept me in his office for over an hour trying to get me to accept it.
 
China did a study comparing places around the world. They based it entirely on the number of times papers are cited from a school by other researchers. We are number 1.

No 'rate my prof', or 'prettiest campus' nonsense. Just based on quality of work.
 
My prestigious institution ranks in the 400's. I think I passed university of phoenix online somewhere along the way
 
Greg Bernhardt said:
Part of the rankings comes from ratemyprofessor.com ratings.

Therein lies the flaw. So, it's a ranking of schools with the coolest professors? That doesn't mean the students get a good education, or will be successful after they graduate, just that they liked their profs? Give all your students A's for no work and they'll love you, but that doesn't mean they're getting a good education.
 
My school, UC Berkeley, ranks at 73, not bad...

edit: and yes, I do not believe in these rankings
 
UCLA is #111? How can this be? :confused:

:cry:
 
This is a lot like those "Top 100 best guitarists" music magazines churn out every now and then. They all suck and do it so people pay more attention to them. There is no such thing as bad publicity.
 
  • #10
Math Is Hard said:
UCLA is #111? How can this be? :confused:

:cry:

What a nice number! It's emphasised 3 times that your college is number 1!o:)
 
  • #11
Cyrus said:
China did a study comparing places around the world. They based it entirely on the number of times papers are cited from a school by other researchers. We are number 1.

No 'rate my prof', or 'prettiest campus' nonsense. Just based on quality of work.

I wouldn't rate that either. Lots of people write papers about pointless crap over and over again. And it must be cited because that's an ethical to do if you know about it.

All ratings are biased.

Also, the cited papers might all be coming from the Biology department meanwhile all the other departments are garbage.

Seriously, no way of measurement will capture the essence of a great school. Period.
 
  • #12
Are those the actual costs of the school? Jeez, I rather kill myself then pay those fees if that's the case.
 
  • #13
One of the comments states that for School X they listed the out of state price, whereas for School Y, they listed $1000 under the in state price, meaning they even got cold hard facts wrong.
 
  • #14
WarPhalange said:
One of the comments states that for School X they listed the out of state price, whereas for School Y, they listed $1000 under the in state price, meaning they even got cold hard facts wrong.

Yeah, but I never saw a price below $13000. That's INSANE!

I have no idea how American citizens put up with that. The most expensive school in Canada is $13000 a year. Sure, it's not the BEST school in the world but we are also a MUCH smaller country. I never paid more than $5000, but now it's like $5500 the average.

I would move out of the USA, get my citizenship elsewhere, and then start school.
 
  • #15
They included room and board in all of the numbers that I checked. That can crank up the price. I have a friend going to UCLA, and her room and board costs more than tuition.
 
  • #16
WarPhalange said:
They included room and board in all of the numbers that I checked. That can crank up the price. I have a friend going to UCLA, and her room and board costs more than tuition.

With room and board, and a food plan, our university tuition goes up to $10,000. It still doesn't even COMPARE to those numbers.
 
  • #17
Whoa... cost of living must be cheap there... or do you just get huge help from the government?
 
  • #18
JasonRox said:
With room and board, and a food plan, our university tuition goes up to $10,000. It still doesn't even COMPARE to those numbers.

per year or per semester?
Mine is close to $10,000 per semester but government etc covered all my first year :smile:.
 
  • #19
rootX said:
per year or per semester?
Mine is close to $10,000 per semester but government etc covered all my first year :smile:.

That's per year.

It's pretty much the same everywhere. At worst it's $13,000.

Seriously, you guys get raped up the *** in the US.

I'm starting my Master's and I'm fully funded such that scholarships will pay for tuition, living and some discretionary income. The TA money I make is extra money that I do whatever I want. I'm going on a trip to the Carribean in December, as well as a Ski Trip to Montreal or Quebec, and most likely going to France in February, and possible to the Carribean again in April and the list just goes on.

I have no idea how you guys do it with those prices.
 
  • #20
JasonRox said:
That's per year.

It's pretty much the same everywhere. At worst it's $13,000.

Seriously, you guys get raped up the *** in the US.

I don't know which university you go to. I am paying about 8,900 per semester and then books etc makes to 10,000 (per sem) for my Ontario university.

8900 includes
Undergrad Full time Tuition
Residence
600 meal plan
plus others ..
 
  • #21
rootX said:
I don't know which university you go to. I am paying about 8,900 per semester and then books etc makes to 10,000 (per sem) for my Ontario university.

8900 includes
Undergrad Full time Tuition
Residence
600 meal plan
plus others ..

What school do you go to?

That's probably an engineering program or business. I'm a mathematics graduate student at Brock University.

As far as I can see, the prices are similar just about through the province besides those in engineering and business. Even then, the prices are nowhere near the US prices for those programs.
 
  • #22
JasonRox said:
What school do you go to?

That's probably an engineering program or business. I'm a mathematics graduate student at Brock University.

As far as I can see, the prices are similar just about through the province besides those in engineering and business. Even then, the prices are nowhere near the US prices for those programs.

Waterloo, engineering co-op.My sister goes to Queens (for Life Science). Her tuition is like ~4,000 but the residence is some 9,000 per year which also makes her per semester expenses close to ~8500.

But, I also heard(from her) paying US universities is a nightmare! But, getting into Canadian Med schools is close to impossible lol
 
  • #23
rootX said:
Waterloo, engineering co-op.


My sister goes to Queens (for Life Science). Her tuition is like ~4,000 but the residence is some 9,000 per year which also makes her per semester expenses close to ~8500.

But, I also heard(from her) paying US universities is a nightmare! But, getting into Canadian Med schools is close to impossible lol

It's STILL MUCH CHEAPER and Queen's is a more expensive school too.
 
  • #24
My school isn't even on the list! I must really suck! :biggrin:
 
  • #25
Lisa! said:
What a nice number! It's emphasised 3 times that your college is number 1!o:)

That must be it. Thanks, Lisa! whew. What a relief.

GO BRUINS!
 
  • #26
So really, how do Americans pay for such high tuition costs?

Get loans? If that's the case, someone pass me a gun...

Note: It must really suck to do post-secondary education in the US.
 
  • #27
I wouldn't be surprised if the list was actually a practical joke. US News knows colleges much better than Forbes.
 
  • #28
JasonRox said:
Yeah, but I never saw a price below $13000. That's INSANE!

I have no idea how American citizens put up with that. The most expensive school in Canada is $13000 a year. Sure, it's not the BEST school in the world but we are also a MUCH smaller country. I never paid more than $5000, but now it's like $5500 the average.

I would move out of the USA, get my citizenship elsewhere, and then start school.
Actually Canadians on average are better educated. I don't believe your 13k figure because that's way too low unless you're talking about fees back in the day when you went to school.
 
  • #29
UoToronto. Less then 6000 per year for me. I don't think any Canadian school is higher then 10,000 a year.

On that website it is cost by year??:eek:
 
  • #30
JasonRox said:
Yeah, but I never saw a price below $13000. That's INSANE!

I have no idea how American citizens put up with that. The most expensive school in Canada is $13000 a year. Sure, it's not the BEST school in the world but we are also a MUCH smaller country. I never paid more than $5000, but now it's like $5500 the average.

I would move out of the USA, get my citizenship elsewhere, and then start school.

Bright Wang said:
UoToronto. Less then 6000 per year for me. I don't think any Canadian school is higher then 10,000 a year.

Yea, tuition cost the States is ridiculous! I'm up north right now for grad school. It seems like all schools up here have close to the same (low) tuition per year. Its awesome!
 
  • #31
Wow I was thinking the exact same thing as many other members here: Why the hell are the costs so high?

Like really 47k to go to university? I would rather not go to university and make that much by working anyways. It's weird how the Americans do not believe us when we are saying that to go to University here in the great North it's under 10k a year. The program I want to get into is around $5,589.99* for the academic year.

* Total fees include tuition (based on a full course load), ancillary fees, course and program fees, health and dental, and UHIP if applicable. Fees are averaged over both terms and may differ based on actual enrollment.
So we can add residence if you guys would like, to make the Americans feel good I guess, even though the furthest of 5 univeristies I am thinking of attending are within a 30 minute drive. That would bring the grand total toooooooo $16721.99, that's not average though, that's A LOT more. I chose the most expensive residence option which costs $11132.00.
I checked the same program (Biomedical sciences) at other universities and it's about the same.

If you include tuition, dental, residence, personal expenses(entertainment, travel etc.), textbooks, it costs $17,123 on average at the most expensive universities. That is a heck of a lot cheaper than 99% of those American universities there, and there are great opportunities at every university for scholarships, and government programs to help pay for university too.

EDIT: Oh and residence fees include: rent, telephone, internet, meal plan (I chose the most expensive one everytime to try to boost the price), a program fee, a student governance fee, food admin fees, and a key deposit.

I guess that something that is important to note is that on worldwide rankings only about 6 of Canada's universities make it into the top 100(highest ranking I've seen is McGill at 17th in USN worldwide rankings). However, these are all publicly funded Universities whereas I'm certain most of Americas top Universities are privately funded.

Another important thing to note about university in Canada is that if you receive your undergraduate degree and look for a job it does not matter where you got your degree from. Unless, the employer graduated from a particular university and is biased towards people with degrees from that university. All university undergraduate degrees are worth the same amount though. When you go into grad school or med school etc. that's when the difference becomes more noticeable.
 
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  • #32
JasonRox said:
So really, how do Americans pay for such high tuition costs?

Get loans? If that's the case, someone pass me a gun...

Note: It must really suck to do post-secondary education in the US.

Whoa! Man I'm going to move to Canada! Oh wait, then I'd have to live in Canada.. (pass me the gun)

But in reality, I didn't pay anything to go to school here in the U.S except money I made working on campus and scholarships.

No one is forcing anyone to go to school here. Don't know how it must be up there.
 
  • #33
There's basically no way you can pass the 30,000 mark a year in university (including res, food, books, computer...) in Canada unless your insanely spoiled.

Maybe USA get more grants, loans, scholarships. I can't see a lot of people going to university if it costs 40,000, the opportunity cost is WAY too high. I wonder if there's really that much different in wages between Canada and US.
 
  • #34
JasonRox said:
So really, how do Americans pay for such high tuition costs?

Get loans? If that's the case, someone pass me a gun...

Note: It must really suck to do post-secondary education in the US.

Loans and federal aid. Most the people at my university are [strike]abusing[/strike] using federal aid. They pay a good deal of everything.
 
  • #35
Pengwuino said:
Loans and federal aid. Most the people at my university are [strike]abusing[/strike] using federal aid. They pay a good deal of everything.
Well, if it cost me 30 grand a year to go to university I would be using as much federal aid as possible.
 
  • #36
whs said:
Whoa! Man I'm going to move to Canada! Oh wait, then I'd have to live in Canada.. (pass me the gun)

Nah, its not that bad. The only things they don't have are good pizza, good cell phone plans, and google voice. They also have square tires.
 
  • #37
ranger said:
Nah, its not that bad. The only things they don't have are good pizza, good cell phone plans, and google voice. They also have square tires.

Ugh! I think the USA has the worst cell phone plans in the world. Way too expensive.

Loans and federal aid. Most the people at my university are abusing using federal aid. They pay a good deal of everything.

I haven't filled out a FAFSA in about 100 years but the last time I compared my experience to my older sisters the rules were a little tighter for me.
 
  • #38
Wow. The tuition prices for colleges are absolutely vomit inducing, even if Forbes is off by a few grand. There's no way the average student could leave 80-90% of those colleges with less than $20,000 or $30,000 in student loans, even after financial aid. What a rip off. That's the American way though. Go to college, graduate with a ton of debt. Pay it off. Buy a house and then send your kid off to college which equals more debt. It's a never ending cycle of debt. I'm tempted to just say screw it all and die with as much debt as possible. Creditors can chase me to the grave all they want. What do I care. Money=meaningless paper to me at this point.
 
  • #39
Pengwuino said:
Loans and federal aid. Most the people at my university are [strike]abusing[/strike] using federal aid. They pay a good deal of everything.

Out of curiosity, how are people abusing federal aid?
 
  • #40
ranger said:
Nah, its not that bad. The only things they don't have are good pizza, good cell phone plans, and google voice. They also have square tires.

But they have Brian Adams. That must count for something. :biggrin:

BTW: My school was in the top 50 in US News and isn't even in the top 500 in this list. It's all nonsense anyway. Also, as for cost, $32k per year. I pay next to nothing (about $5k per year in fees, books, transportaion, etc) since I am over 25 and keep my grades in line.
 
  • #41
Saladsamurai said:
But they have Brian Adams. That must count for something. :biggrin:

BTW: My school was in the top 50 in US News and isn't even in the top 500 in this list. It's all nonsense anyway. Also, as for cost, $32k per year. I pay next to nothing (about $5k per year in fees, books, transportaion, etc) since I am over 25 and keep my grades in line.

Agree, it's nonsense. Most of the schools I've never heard of! And the vast majority are private schools. No wonder they're so expensive, public schools are *much* cheaper.
 
  • #42
gravenewworld said:
Wow. The tuition prices for colleges are absolutely vomit inducing, even if Forbes is off by a few grand. There's no way the average student could leave 80-90% of those colleges with less than $20,000 or $30,000 in student loans, even after financial aid. What a rip off. That's the American way though. Go to college, graduate with a ton of debt. Pay it off. Buy a house and then send your kid off to college which equals more debt. It's a never ending cycle of debt. I'm tempted to just say screw it all and die with as much debt as possible. Creditors can chase me to the grave all they want. What do I care. Money=meaningless paper to me at this point.

After tuition, room and board, books, etc. Basically everything in your initial financial aid packet the total cost per year for my school is around $49,000. I was lucky enough to get enough scholarship so I don't have to pay anything but I have several friends that take out loans. My girlfriend just took out a $20,000 loan to pay for this year. A few of my friends that just lost their scholarships from the school because they fell below a 3.0 gpa just had to take out additional loans as well. My guess would be that the average student that graduates here has at least 30K in debt from school loans.
 
  • #43
ranger said:
Nah, its not that bad. The only things they don't have are good pizza, good cell phone plans, and google voice. They also have square tires.

You probably think he's kidding about the square tires. When the temperature is -40, the tires all have flat spots on them and the only thing you can do is endure the flat spots until the air in the tires heats up enough to reinflate the tires.
 
  • #44
lisab said:
No wonder they're so expensive, public schools are *much* cheaper.
My public school is on there and they still got the price horrible wrong. They put the amount as $15,000 more than it actually is 'cause they included dorms, which almost nobody lives in 'cause it's a commuter school, rent in the neighborhood is cheaper, and actual tuition is about $5000 a year.

I chose the awesome scholarship (I made money) route over $50K/yr in loans for the much better ranked school.
 
  • #45
BTW those costs are without room and board...

they list chicago at $49k and with room and board its $55k+

https://collegeadmissions.uchicago.edu/costs/attendance.shtml

O by the way that is a HORRIBLE ranking... its almost a joke
 
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  • #46
My friends have med school loans on the order of 2-300k. Yummy.
 

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