Are Protons & Electrons Just Electrical Charge?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of protons and electrons, specifically whether they are merely electrical charges or if they are distinct entities that possess electrical charge. The scope includes conceptual exploration and technical reasoning regarding the properties of these fundamental particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that protons and electrons are simply electrical charges, questioning if they can exist independently of their charge.
  • Others argue that protons and electrons are distinct particles that possess electrical charge, emphasizing that they cannot give away their charge and still remain as the same particles.
  • A participant notes that while electrons have a well-defined charge, other particles like muons also carry charge, complicating the notion of equating a particle with its charge.
  • There is mention of the internal structure of protons, which consist of quarks, suggesting that calling protons "positive charge" is misleading without acknowledging their composition.
  • One participant references a definition of electric charge, indicating that it is a property of matter that causes interactions, thus framing protons and electrons as particles that inherently possess charge rather than being defined solely by it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether protons and electrons can be considered merely as electrical charges or as distinct entities that have charge. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations in the discussion include the dependence on definitions of charge and the complexity of particle interactions, particularly regarding quarks and their fractional charges.

vincentfromya
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...electrical charge?

i've read them described as both. what i want to try to understand is, is the proton and electron simply an electrical charge, nothing more?

or, are they things in their own right, which have an electrical charge?

to use an analogy. peter can have a cardboard sign with a plus sign written on it. he can give the sign away and still continue to exist himself. he is not an electrical charge; he HAS an electrical charge (well, a sign with a plus sign written on it).

likewise for electrons. if eddie has a sign with a minus sign on it he can give it away and still exist; is this the case for electrons?
 
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vincentfromya said:
likewise for electrons. if eddie has a sign with a minus sign on it he can give it away and still exist; is this the case for electrons?

Eddie gets a new name, and we call him a neutrino.
 


Electrons always have electric charge. But I won't tell that they are charges, as there are also other particles, distinct from electrons, having identical charge. If you say that electron is a charge, then you'd have to say that 'muon have an electron', which would be rather hard to accept.

Eddie always wear a "-" T-shirt, but Paul and Mark also always wear identical T-shirts.

Protons have well defined internal structure of quarks - so calling them "positive charge" would be totally wrong. You may attribute charge to quarks, but again - there are three quarks wearing "+2/3" shirts, and three wearing "-1/3".
 


Protons and electrons HAVE electrical charge. They ARE particles which HAVE electric charge.
From what i know electrons can't give their electric charge and still exist as electrons with the same mass (particles can HAVE mass too). I think the same holds about protons.
 


From Wikipedia on Electric Charge: Electric charge is a physical property of matter that causes it to experience a force when near other electrically charged matter.

Per this it seems that a particle has an electric charge, either positive or negative, that is just a property of the particle. However, because protons and electrons both carry the smallest indivisible amount of charge, (IE charge is quantized) they are commonly referred to as charges. Quarks can carry 1/3 of a charge, but are not seen as individual particles, only as composite particles such as protons or neutrons, and as such we never see the 1/3 or 2/3 charge, only a 1 or a 0.
 

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