Are there any alternatives for batteries?

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In summary: They eventually die out and need to be replaced. However, there are many alternative ways to store energy such as using internal combustion engines, large value capacitors, and recent developments in supercapacitors. These alternatives may not be as efficient as batteries in terms of energy density, but they can still be used as substitutes. Another option is to reduce the consumption of the device, which can greatly extend the lifespan of the battery. Additionally, considering alternating current solutions and designing for a single lithium cell can also improve energy storage. It's important to do thorough evaluations and not solely rely on "clean" solutions, as they may not always be as environmentally friendly as they claim. Ultimately, creating a better battery will require
  • #1
Shadow-Shocker
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Does anyone know if there are any substances that can be used/made into a substitute for a battery?
 
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  • #2
There are lots of ways to store energy. Loosely speaking, they can all be considered batteries, inasmuch as they store energy. An internal combustion engine stores potential energy in the form of chemistry, which can be liberated to produce useful mechanical or electrical energy.

I think what you're asking is are there any alternatives to (dry cell batteries, wet cells or ... metal) for storing electricity.

The problem you're going to run into is energy density. Our current batteries are so popular because they are at the pinnacle of energy density, especially considering their size. You may produce an alternate way of storing electricity, but if you find one that can store as much electricity as our current cells, you'll be a rich man.
 
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  • #3
Large value capacitors are sometimes substituted for voltaic cells, e.g. where weight is critical.
 
  • #4
recent developments into supercapacitors have proven as much as 26kw per kg which is getting closer to where many would like them to be. I believe this example was nitrogen doped graphene. The benefits of capacitors are there rapid discharge and recharge rate, however their down fall is voltage regulation and discharge efficiency. In other words yes there are many substances that can replace a battery but none are as good. technically a lemon, onion, or potato could be used to replace a battery and aluminum foil and paper could be used to replace a capacitor, but now we are just getting into semantics.
 
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  • #5
Shadow-Shocker...What's the problem with using a battery?
 
  • #6
CWatters said:
Shadow-Shocker...What's the problem with using a battery?
That's my gut reaction, too but the thing that makes me react against Capacitor storage is the drooping voltage and that could be a worry of the past with switch mode becoming cheap and powerful.
 
  • #7
Ultra capacitors used to power buses (2009)...
 
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  • #8
David Lewis said:
Large value capacitors are sometimes substituted for voltaic cells, e.g. where weight is critical.
CWatters said:
Shadow-Shocker...What's the problem with using a battery?
The problem with batteries is that they eventually die out due to conventional current. I want to find an alternative form of energy that lasts longer, since the project I am doing will always be turned on, and I am looking for a much higher dense form of energy that will last for years. The battery that will fit within my project, structure wise, is a 9V battery. I was looking at graphene/carbon nanotube substances, since they are capable of being put on a piece of paper and have a crap ton of conductivity. However, those substances cannot be used as a power supply only as a capacitor. The question is, are there any forms of highly condense energy that are tangible/mobile?
 
  • #9
Shadow-Shocker said:
are there any forms of highly condense energy that are tangible/mobile?
Old fashioned fuels do a pretty good job and the engines are cheap. Still a good solution for some applications; you need to do the precise sums for a proper evaluation. If you want a result, it's not always best to get too fond of a particular solution.
 
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  • #10
sophiecentaur said:
Old fashioned fuels do a pretty good job and the engines are cheap. Still a good solution for some applications; you need to do the precise sums for a proper evaluation. If you want a result, it's not always best to get too fond of a particular solution.
What about clean alternative solutions?
 
  • #11
Shadow-Shocker said:
What about clean alternative solutions?
That's a valid question but you could consider how much real impact a simple 'dirty' solution could be, compared with an expensive, hi tech solution that may have had all sorts of impact on the environment before you bought it. There's a lot of snake oil associated with some of the 'clean' uses of energy and it's important to do a lot of sums before concluding the absolute level of cleanliness of a solution.
 
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  • #12
Reduce the consumption of the device? Some smoke alarm batteries last 10 years due to their low power consumption.
 
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  • #13
CWatters said:
Reduce the consumption of the device? Some smoke alarm batteries last 10 years due to their low power consumption.
What about alternating current solutions, they reduce significant amounts of energy compared to direct current? How can we apply that for a battery?
 
  • #14
As I recall the standard 9V consumer battery has a low energy density compared to other cells because it contains six 1.5V cells each with its own case. Better to design for a single Lithium cell?
 
  • #15
Perhaps worth pointing out that it takes quite a lot of time and effort to get a factor of two improvement in battery energy density. If you want better than current Lithium cells you may have to wait 5-10 years for them to become commercially available.
 
  • #16
CWatters said:
Perhaps worth pointing out that it takes quite a lot of time and effort to get a factor of two improvement in battery energy density. If you want better than current Lithium cells you may have to wait 5-10 years for them to become commercially available.
Or hell, we can start making better ones instead of waiting.
 
  • #17
Shadow-Shocker said:
Or hell, we can start making better ones instead of waiting.
This doesn't make sense.
You can bet that a better battery has the attention of a LOT of tech companies. Do you think they're just sitting on their laurels and reaping dividends?
5-10 years is how long it will take the best in the world to make them.
 
  • #18
DaveC426913 said:
This doesn't make sense.
You can bet that a better battery has the attention of a LOT of tech companies. Do you think they're just sitting on their laurels and reaping dividends?
5-10 years is how long it will take the best in the world to make them.
Just making an funny/encouraging statement.
 
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  • #19
Oh. o0)
 
  • #20
Shadow-Shocker said:
The problem with batteries is that they eventually die out due to conventional current. I want to find an alternative form of energy that lasts longer, since the project I am doing will always be turned on, and I am looking for a much higher dense form of energy that will last for years. The battery that will fit within my project, structure wise, is a 9V battery.
Exactly how much energy does it need?
What about alternating current solutions, they reduce significant amounts of energy compared to direct current?
No, they don't.
 
  • #21
russ_watters said:
Exactly how much energy does it need?
Enough to keep a 6V motor moving forever, or for a really long time.
 
  • #22
russ_watters said:
No, they don't.

Just thinking of ideas
 
  • #23
Shadow-Shocker said:
Enough to keep a 6V motor moving forever, or for a really long time.
Well, "forever" would be an infinite amount of energy and since a volt is not a unit of energy and "a really long time" is undefined, I'll say you need 47 and suggest powering it with purple.
Just thinking of ideas
Well, no offense, but this is a serious forum and if you intend for this to be a serious idea and want real help, you need to take it more seriously.
 
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  • #24
russ_watters said:
Well, no offense, but this is a serious forum and if you intend for this to be a serious idea and want real help, you need to take it more seriously.

Im sorry, but on this forum I have come in contact with a bit of a problem. This field of electrical engineering is relatively new to me, and I have taken a bit offense to your assumption, although it wasn't your intention to as stated. Now, correct me if I may be wrong, but we can both agree that we want a serious forum that encourages people with different viewpoints to think freely and to share their ideas on this forum to build upon discussion not discouragement. As Staff member on this forum, from your experience, you can understand that we as people continue to grow and learn from one another and to help each other grow we must not discourage people from knowing the truth. I am taking this forum seriously, one can see I am continuing to ask questions to encourage discussion, but in the future, would it be alright if you can make sure no discouraging comments come on this forum so people can elaborate more in discussions?
 
  • #25
There's no point to tell you that you had a 'great idea' if that idea doesn't get you anywhere. We're here to help you with challenges, not to make you feel like you can already do them if you truly can't.

Don't take offense to this please, and get back to the main subject. I'm very interested into how this discussion will further progress, though I currently do not have the adequate knowledge required to even assist you with this challenge.

By all means though if you believe that great idea pertains to your challenge but others don't see it that way, try looking into that idea yourself before asking others what they think about said idea. :)
 
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  • #26
OK, so battery companies have already produced amazing results in metamaterials and synthetics especially with graphene doping and lithium ion tech, however many are too expensive for mass production. If you are looking to have a major source of reliable energy with minimal depletion and highly condensed it is already available but not cheap... Nuclear
 
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  • #27
Oh and on a separate note, to solve the problem you are working on, first you must set parameters, like a finite amount of time and an amperage. If you have a low draw of current solar or kinetic generators could direct drive the motor while in use the charge the battery while not in use.
 
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  • #29
Shadow-Shocker said:
Im sorry, but...
C'mon, you're really in need of tough love and we can be extraordinarily helpful if you help us help you. Nowhere in there did you address the problem I highlighted. So do you want false encouragement or do you want real help?
 
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  • #30
As I understand it one of the big challenges with new battery tech is the fragility or the electrodes. To improve capacity they typically need to maximise surface area, perhaps by making them porous, but expansion and contraction during charge cycles cause damage to fine structures. So when you read about any new battery tech look to see if they have also solved the problems of fast charging and life/number of charge cycles.
 
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  • #31
russ_watters said:
C'mon, you're really in need of tough love and we can be extraordinarily helpful if you help us help you. Nowhere in there did you address the problem I highlighted. So do you want false encouragement or do you want real help?
I am accepting criticism, and I am letting a lot of people help on this discussion. If you don't want to participate on this discussion and go to another one, that is up to you.
 
  • #32
Shadow-Shocker said:
I am accepting criticism, and I am letting a lot of people help on this discussion. If you don't want to participate on this discussion and go to another one, that is up to you.
I was helping/participating: I did ask you a specific question that would be a big help, but you haven't answered it.
 
  • #33
I'm with Russ. The question is badly specified. Many wrist watches have "motors" that run for a long time.
 
  • #34
Following the idea of large surface area does anyone know if they have tried graphene aerogel? Or zeolite? It seems to me that the conductance and porosity of graphene aerogel would be a ringer for this.
 
  • #35
I believe they have been looking at graphene for some years. If I understand correctly the energy density isn't high enough unless the graphene is compressed and there are problems with just compressing it? I might be wrong/out of date.
 
<h2>1. What are the environmental impacts of batteries and why do we need alternatives?</h2><p>Batteries contain toxic chemicals that can harm the environment when disposed of improperly. Additionally, the production of batteries contributes to pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. Alternatives are needed to reduce these negative environmental impacts.</p><h2>2. Are there any existing alternatives for batteries?</h2><p>Yes, there are several alternatives for batteries such as supercapacitors, fuel cells, and flywheels. These alternatives have different energy storage mechanisms and can be used in various applications.</p><h2>3. How do these alternatives compare to traditional batteries in terms of performance?</h2><p>The performance of alternative energy storage technologies varies depending on the specific application and requirements. Some alternatives may have higher energy density or longer lifespan, while others may have lower cost or faster charging times.</p><h2>4. Are there any limitations or challenges in using alternatives for batteries?</h2><p>Yes, there are limitations and challenges in using alternative energy storage technologies. Some may have lower energy density or require rare materials, making them less practical or sustainable. Additionally, the infrastructure and technology for these alternatives may not be as developed as traditional batteries.</p><h2>5. What research is currently being done to develop better alternatives for batteries?</h2><p>There is ongoing research and development in the field of energy storage to improve existing alternatives and develop new ones. This includes exploring new materials, improving energy efficiency, and finding ways to make these alternatives more cost-effective and scalable for widespread use.</p>

1. What are the environmental impacts of batteries and why do we need alternatives?

Batteries contain toxic chemicals that can harm the environment when disposed of improperly. Additionally, the production of batteries contributes to pollution and greenhouse gas emissions. Alternatives are needed to reduce these negative environmental impacts.

2. Are there any existing alternatives for batteries?

Yes, there are several alternatives for batteries such as supercapacitors, fuel cells, and flywheels. These alternatives have different energy storage mechanisms and can be used in various applications.

3. How do these alternatives compare to traditional batteries in terms of performance?

The performance of alternative energy storage technologies varies depending on the specific application and requirements. Some alternatives may have higher energy density or longer lifespan, while others may have lower cost or faster charging times.

4. Are there any limitations or challenges in using alternatives for batteries?

Yes, there are limitations and challenges in using alternative energy storage technologies. Some may have lower energy density or require rare materials, making them less practical or sustainable. Additionally, the infrastructure and technology for these alternatives may not be as developed as traditional batteries.

5. What research is currently being done to develop better alternatives for batteries?

There is ongoing research and development in the field of energy storage to improve existing alternatives and develop new ones. This includes exploring new materials, improving energy efficiency, and finding ways to make these alternatives more cost-effective and scalable for widespread use.

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