At how much of a disadvantage with women is a 5'8 guy?

[ZombieFeynman]

Hmm, that's not what I got from this.
It's only Evo and Monique who said they did not care.
I suspect they are not representative.
And now I'm curious whether the father of Evo's children wasn't about 4 inches taller...

Fair enough. My post has been edited to reflect this.

 

[I like Serena]

Oh, and Monique, with her average of 5'6.4" for females in the Netherlands (I found 5'7" from wiki), did not mention that the males are 6'0" on average.
These are apparently the males these women select.

 

[Solute]

I think the main issue with Jamin2112 is that he is not going to places where there are woman. I have the same problem, being in a science related field there are WAY less woman than many other fields. And it gets worse, once you have a job the number of people you interact with daily drop to ~20 and its the same people day in, day out making it really hard to find a good match for yourself. And this spirals in making someones selfconfidence fall. Dating sites don't even work, especially for any age less then 25. Because I feel like a lonely single man (been single for more than a few years), my confidence is reduced, and knowing that woman want a more confident guy, my confidence goes even more down. Even though I have a good job, and various other aspects of my life are great.

 

[ZombieFeynman]

Oh, and Monique, with her average of 5'6.4" for females in the Netherlands (I found 5'7" from wiki), did not mention that the males are 6'0" on average.
These are apparently the males these women select.

I'm still not certain of your point. You quote the average heights of men and women in a specific country.

No offence, but...so what?

 

[daveyrocket]

If you look hard enough, you're going to find every guy has some sort of disadvantage with women. Get over it. I know that's hard to do, because for us sciencey-mathy types, we grow up getting rewards for pointing out where other people are wrong. But it doesn't work that way with women (or much of life). Women can be very forgiving about a man's disadvantages, if she likes what advantages he has. If women were as critical as you are, the human race would have died out long ago.

5'8" is not that short anyway. There are plenty of attractive women who are between 5'0" and 5'4". Don't focus so much on statistics, especially statistics that just deal in averages and say nothing about distributions. They can be very misleading. I've been hit on by women who were 2-3" taller than me.

Yes. There was a study that showed most women would rather date a guy who has been to prison than a guy who is less than 2 inches taller than them.

That doesn't say much. A lot of women don't have anything against dating a guy who's been to prison.

You guys are clueless. If you're short and look like you lift weights obsessively, then you're viewed as trying to compensate for lack of height.

No, most women won't see it that way. Women would think "he's short, but ooh, look at those muscles!" Building muscle takes a lot of work, and people (women included) appreciate that.

I think the main issue with Jamin2112 is that he is not going to places where there are woman. I have the same problem, being in a science related field there are WAY less woman than many other fields. And it gets worse, once you have a job the number of people you interact with daily drop to ~20 and its the same people day in, day out making it really hard to find a good much for yourself. And this spirals in making someones selfconfidence fall. Dating sites don't even work, especially for any age less then 25. Because I feel like a lonely single man (been single for more than a few years), my confidence is reduced, and knowing that woman want a more confident guy, my confidence goes even more down. Even though I have a good job, and various other aspects of my life are great.

Dating sites can work. I've met several women from dating sites, including my girlfriend. But they are not stacked in favor of men. But then neither is dating in general. Try this experiment some time.. make a profile of a hot girl and see how many and what quality of emails she gets. It's enlightening, and it gives you an idea of what you need to do to distinguish yourself from the riffraff.

You need to get out and do something social that women also like to do. Personally, I'm a big advocate of taking some sort of dance lessons to meet women. Men have a numbers advantage there, and most women go to those sorts of things specifically to meet men. You don't even have to be good at it, just being willing to try is enough for some women.

Meeting people doesn't just happen. You *have* to make an effort.

 

[daveyrocket]

I'm still not certain of your point. You quote the average heights of men and women in a specific country.

No offence, but...so what?

Because the average height of men is higher than the average height of women! Therefore, all men are taller than all women! And the average women prefers a man who is four inches taller than she is! Therefore, all women have a completely uncompromising preference for men that are four inches taller!

 

[I like Serena]

Because the average height of men is higher than the average height of women! Therefore, all men are taller than all women! And the average women prefers a man who is four inches taller than she is! Therefore, all women have a completely uncompromising preference for men that are four inches taller!

Yep. That's what I wanted to say. ;)

 

[daveyrocket]

Women on average want a man that is two years older than she is. That's why an older women, like Demi Moore, would never date a younger man such as... just to pull a totally random name out of a hat... Ashton Kutcher.

 

[Evo]

A lot of women don't have anything against dating a guy who's been to prison.

I'd have to say that Jamin's memory is wrong or the survey was in jest, I believe the vast majority of women would not want to date an ex-con. Of course social and educational status of a woman would most likely influence this. If you live in a low income/high crime area, you may not have much of a choice.

No, most women won't see it that way. Women would think "he's short, but ooh, look at those muscles!" Building muscle takes a lot of work, and people (women included) appreciate that.

Again, maybe it's my social circle, and my girl's social circles, regardless of the part of the country I've lived in, but I rarely meet women that are into muscular men, being fit is fine, but men that "bulk out" are considered less attractive, and a man that spends a lot of time on "building muscles" is a negative. Of course this is my experience, perhaps it's odd that the majority of women I've met during my life also feel this way, and I admit I've known women that get into big muscles, but they're the minority, IMO. My advice is if it's not something that you *really* want, don't do it to try to "impress" women, you could end up turning off the type of woman you want.

 

[lisab]

It's all about confidence. Let me give you an example of what confidence looks like.

I was on my way to my second date with a guy - the first date was just a nice-to-meet you, no kissy-kissy or anything like that. So he called saying that he would be about 5 minutes late. No problem, I said, I'll get a table for us.

So I got a table next to the wall. One seat was a normal chair, the other was a bench seat connected to the wall. I sat on the bench seat so I could see when he came in.

He comes in about 5 minutes late, comes over to the table, walks right by "his" chair and slides onto the bench next to me. Close. Close enough that our thighs are touching! As if it's the most normal thing in the world, not the slightest bit of embarrassment or self-consciousness. Smiling big. "Hi, sorry I'm a bit late! Have you been here long?"

That's confidence. Would it have mattered if he was bald-short-limping-whatever? Nope.

 

[Solute]

He comes in about 5 minutes late, comes over to the table, walks right by "his" chair and slides onto the bench next to me. Close. Close enough that our thighs are touching! As if it's the most normal thing in the world, not the slightest bit of embarrassment or self-consciousness. Smiling big. "Hi, sorry I'm a bit late! Have you been here long?"

You just met the guy for the first time. You don't find that creepy?

 

[Vanadium 50]

You just met the guy for the first time.

On the second date? If so, the first date must have been the Most Boring Date Ever.

 

[HeLiXe]

No, most women won't see it that way. Women would think "he's short, but ooh, look at those muscles!" Building muscle takes a lot of work, and people (women included) appreciate that.

I don't lol. I would prefer a short skinny or chubby guy to a short muscular one.

I'd have to say that Jamin's memory is wrong or the survey was in jest, I believe the vast majority of women would not want to date an ex-con. Of course social and educational status of a woman would most likely influence this. If you live in a low income/high crime area, you may not have much of a choice.

Again, maybe it's my social circle, and my girl's social circles, regardless of the part of the country I've lived in, but I rarely meet women that are into muscular men, being fit is fine, but men that "bulk out" are considered less attractive, and a man that spends a lot of time on "building muscles" is a negative. Of course this is my experience, perhaps it's odd that the majority of women I've met during my life also feel this way, and I admit I've known women that get into big muscles, but they're the minority, IMO. My advice is if it's not something that you *really* want, don't do it to try to "impress" women, you could end up turning off the type of woman you want.

This has also been my experience. I do have one friend who prefers guys who are a little bulked out, and generally we do take muscle building as a negative. But again these are all physical things, they may be what attracts you to a guy but not what will keep you with them or make you serious about them.

 

[Solute]

On the second date? If so, the first date must have been the Most Boring Date Ever.

Never mind I missed the part where you said it was second date.

 

[zooxanthellae]

I've known more than a few girls (I say girls because I'm 20) who explicitly stated that they wouldn't date anyone who was not taller than they were. Granted, one could respond that 1. at that age nobody knows what they want anyway, or 2. maybe they just haven't met a good enough small guy yet. But I think it's disingenuous to imply that no such disadvantage exists.

(FWIW I'm a 5'2" guy. Life goes on.)

 

[Char. Limit]

Hi, 20-year-old single guy here. How exactly do you expect to change your height, Mr. OP? And if you can't change it, why on Earth are you worrying about it? Sounds kinda stupid if you ask me. Wouldn't it be better to worry about things you CAN change, rather than worry about things you can't?

But hey, that's just logic speakin' to me.

 

[PhizKid]

Well, there's always: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/york-man-grows-inches-surgery/story?id=15776730

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Wouldn't it be better to worry about things you CAN change, rather than worry about things you can't?

But hey, that's just logic speakin' to me.

It's also serenity isn't it? How does that AA thing go?

 

[Hepth]

5'8" in MY opinion is NOT short enough to garner any pity. When meeting women you just have to avoid obvious stupid situations, i.e. Don't go out trying to find girls with your 4 tallest friends.

If a woman is 5'3" and you're 5'8" in a room of 5'10" guys, I don't think you're at ANY disadvantage. But if you're 5'2" in a room of 5'5" guys, you're going to have a bad time.

Everything in this post may sound sexist, and I am in no way saying the following is GENERALLY true, but rather GENERALLY observed by myself. There are always exceptions.

I've tended to notice that women are more of a checklist/pass/fail when first meeting you. (And having talked to a few of my friends/curent SO about it). If you have a characteristic that they don't like, it seems to me that they have a harder time getting past it (again, not saying it never happens).

Guys on the other hand have more of a cumulative scoring test. There are things that, on first appearance, we dislike, but if the general total is passable, we're attracted.

Neither of these are bad in any way.
The women I meet tend to "obsess" more (in a non-offensive way). Almost like their brain will keep nagging them about something that's bothering them (is he too short?), and it gets hard for them to look past it (he's almost shorter than me); consequently becoming quite a distraction (what did he just say?). This distraction can lead to a general negative impact, leading her away from him, thus making her appear shallow in the "picky" sense.

Guys on the other hand let SMALL things go much faster (to a fault to be honest) and end up seeming to lack either opinion (I really just don't care if your dress makes you look fat), emotion (You're friend's dog died? a damn shame but it happens, can we watch the move now?) or conviction (I'd love to get sushi for dinner. Oh you want pizza? Thats fine then too.) , leading to us seeming shallow in the "not picky" sense.

So while all these generalizations are great and all, they ONLY APPLY TO THE FIRST 5 SECONDS OF MEETING SOMEONE. As soon as the words "Hi/Hello" are uttered, all bets are off and its up to YOU to make a connection. Sure, a little more work might be required, but that's part of the fun.

So in the end, I'd say SHORT guys (defined as less than the average FEMALE height) and TALL women (defined as greater than the average MALE height) get screwed. (or don't rather).

 

[Jamin2112]

SHORT guys (defined as less than the average FEMALE height)

Eh? Average female height in the U.S. is 5'4". You're saying that guys 5'5"-5'8" shouldn't be considered short?

 

[Char. Limit]

Eh? Average female height in the U.S. is 5'4". You're saying that guys 5'5"-5'8" shouldn't be considered short?

Well... no.

 

[Hepth]

Eh? Average female height in the U.S. is 5'4". You're saying that guys 5'5"-5'8" shouldn't be considered short?

That is exactly what I'm saying. As long as you're not shorter than the girl you're talking to, you're not short.

 

[Jamin2112]

That is exactly what I'm saying. As long as you're not shorter than the girl you're talking to, you're not short.

That's simply not true.

 

[Hepth]

That's simply not true.

If you're an inch shorter than average and call yourself short, should a guy an inch taller than average call himself tall?

 

[Jamin2112]

If you're an inch shorter than average and call yourself short, should a guy an inch taller than average call himself tall?

Maybe I'm an inch shorter than average if we're including Asians and Mexicans in the average, but in the relevant population of interest, White males, I'm about 3 inches below average.

 

[Monique]

Maybe I'm an inch shorter than average if we're including Asians and Mexicans in the average, but in the relevant population of interest, White males, I'm about 3 inches below average.

Start dating Asians and Mexicans and all your problem will be solved.

 

[Char. Limit]

Maybe I'm an inch shorter than average if we're including Asians and Mexicans in the average, but in the relevant population of interest, White males, I'm about 3 inches below average.

It sounds to me like you're looking for excuses to call yourself short. If we pointed out some relevant characteristic of white men that makes you only barely short, or not at all, you'd probably go even further, like "white men in my specific region of America with degrees similar to my own" or something.

Perhaps it would help if you stopped focusing so much on your height?

 

[RabbitWho]

Being the exact same height is ideal, for the health of one's neck. This is why women bring measuring tapes with them to bars and wear shoes without laces that can easily be removed.

 

[SW VandeCarr]

Re: OP

In an earlier post, I pointed out that actor Tom Cruise is 5'7" and he is one of a number of successful "short" actors and Hollywood sex symbols. They broke into, and made a name for themselves in a highly competitive industry where looks and sex appeal are important for leading men and women (as opposed to character actors). How does a "short" guy break into this exceedingly competitive arena? Hollywood is full of hopeless "wanabees". 6'2" "hunks" work as part time security guards or park cars while they wait for the big break that will never come. Is it just a matter of talent? I doubt it. I think a positive attitude and confidence are the key in any competitive arena. Your negativity is apparent to nearly everyone who posted here. In general, people recoil from negativity and are attracted to positivity.

 

[zoobyshoe]

In general, people recoil from negativity and are attracted to positivity.

Yes, we're all just electrons in Life's Big Circuit.