Back and Forth Motion: Definition & Explanation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of a specific type of motion characterized by an object moving up and down, gaining momentum with each cycle. Participants explore various terms and concepts related to this motion, including simple harmonic motion, resonance, and oscillations, while also addressing the complexities involved in such movements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a motion where an object moves up and down, gaining more momentum each time it reaches the top, seeking a one-word term for this phenomenon.
  • Another participant suggests that this motion can be referred to as 'Simple Harmonic Motion'.
  • Some propose the term "resonance" as a possible descriptor, cautioning against misinformation related to perpetual motion.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of undamped forced oscillation, linking it to the motion described.
  • Several participants express that the concepts discussed seem complicated, relating them to simpler motions like a pendulum swing.
  • One participant emphasizes the need for energy input to achieve larger oscillations and mentions the importance of minimal damping.
  • Another participant discusses how a swing can demonstrate increasing amplitude through proper timing of energy input.
  • Some participants argue that the described motion is "impossible" or "nonphysical," stating that while oscillations may increase temporarily, they will eventually stabilize or change form.
  • Examples of physical systems, such as crystal oscillators, are provided to illustrate how oscillations can build up to a maximum level without infinite growth.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the nature of the motion. While some terms and concepts are proposed, there is no consensus on a single definition or understanding of the motion described.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the motion may reach a maximum amplitude or change into a different type of motion, highlighting the limitations of the initial descriptions and the complexity of the underlying physics.

viciam
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Hi guys,

I'm not a physicist or a mathematician but I have a question which will probably sound silly to you all

I need to know what that motion is called when you have an object and it moves up and down. But it gains more momentum every time it reaches the top so when it drops it goes down further and faster and when it reaches the maximum bottom it comes back up even faster and further and this cycle just keeps repeating. On every completion of up and down movement it goes further and further down and further and further up

In one word please tell me what this is called so I can google it. I inertia and reciprocating but this is not it. I know there's one word to describe this but I just can't remember it.

Thanks
 
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In a periodic motion object moves back and foirth about its mean position.

The kind of motion you are describing can be more precisely called a 'Simple Harmonic Motion'.

Now you can google those two terms i described above
 
Try "resonance".

But don't get sidetracked into crackpot websites about perpetual motion machines, "free energy", etc.
 
Undamped forced oscillation:

http://www.nptel.iitm.ac.in/courses/Webcourse-contents/IIT-KANPUR/engg_mechanics/ui/Course_home_26.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
These all sound pretty complicated.

I thought it was as simple as a pendulum swing or something
 
viciam said:
These all sound pretty complicated.

I thought it was as simple as a pendulum swing or something

You need to be putting energy in with each swing, to get bigger oscillatory motion. And there needs to be very little damping, so the energy being added in does not get dissipated by the damping.
 
viciam said:
These all sound pretty complicated.

I thought it was as simple as a pendulum swing or something

Yes, you can do this with a swing. Either by pushing someone from outside or by yourself, flexing your legs at the right times. The amplitude increases at each cycle, up to a limit.
Can be modeled as a forced oscillator, as already mentioned.
But the math is not so simple, even for a "simple" pendulum, at large amplitudes.
 
This is exactly what I'm trying to find out. You see how the waves become larger and larger as they go along? I typed in increasing oscillations in Google to get this image. http://www.nptel.iitm.ac.in/courses/Webcourse-contents/IIT-KANPUR/engg_mechanics/lecture26/26_1_clip_image059.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #10
A one-word description for this motion would be "impossible". Or "nonphysical". Or "imaginary". It does not exists in nature. The amplitude of oscillations may increase for a while, but then it will either reach some maximum level, or "bifurcate" into some other motion, which is a fancy way of saying "break into pieces".
 
  • #11
voko said:
A one-word description for this motion would be "impossible". Or "nonphysical". Or "imaginary". It does not exists in nature. The amplitude of oscillations may increase for a while, but then it will either reach some maximum level, or "bifurcate" into some other motion, which is a fancy way of saying "break into pieces".

One example of this oscillatory buildup which is very physical and non-destructive is the startup of a crystal oscillator. It starts with noise deviating the output of the oscillator amp a small amount, and the combination of positive & negative feedback builds up the oscillation slowly over many cycles until the oscillation limits itself at the nominal oscillator output amplitude.
 
  • #12
berkeman said:
One example of this oscillatory buildup which is very physical and non-destructive is the startup of a crystal oscillator. It starts with noise deviating the output of the oscillator amp a small amount, and the combination of positive & negative feedback builds up the oscillation slowly over many cycles until the oscillation limits itself at the nominal oscillator output amplitude.

So this reaches a maximum level, just like I said. It does not grow infinitely.
 
  • #13
voko said:
So this reaches a maximum level, just like I said. It does not grow infinitely.

Yes, absolutely. It just doesn't break into pieces like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge! :smile:
 

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