Back EMF in a Motor - Does It Alternate?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of back electromotive force (emf) in a rotating coil within a magnetic field, particularly in the context of DC motors and generators. Participants explore whether the back emf alternates completely or varies sinusoidally, and how this relates to the operation of electric motors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the back emf induced in a rotating coil in a magnetic field would be alternating, questioning whether it alternates completely or varies sinusoidally every half period, similar to DC generators.
  • Another participant asserts that the back emf alternates between positive and negative values, akin to a sine wave, explaining that when the torque aligns with the rotation, the back emf is negative, reducing current, while opposing torque results in positive emf and increased current.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the back emf might resemble a sine wave that does not alternate, suggesting a modification where half the period is effectively cut off, akin to the absolute value of the sine function.
  • One participant clarifies that for rotation to occur, the direction of one of the magnetic fields must be changed, indicating a need for engineering solutions in electric motor design.
  • Another participant explains that achieving the "absolute value" effect, as seen in DC generators and motors, requires flipping the leads of the rotating coil relative to the output leads before the emf becomes negative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the back emf, with some proposing it alternates completely while others suggest it may not alternate in the same manner. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact behavior of the back emf.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific engineering considerations in motor design and the potential for deviations from a true sine wave due to changes in current, but these aspects remain unresolved.

Gear300
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Say you had a circuit with a battery and a loop of wire somewhere in the middle of the circuit. The loop of wire is positioned so that it is free to rotate in a uniform magnetic field, and since a current is running through it, a torque will be supplied by the magnetic force allowing it to rotate. The rotation of the coil will cause a changing magnetic flux because the angle constantly changes. The circuit to begin with was a DC circuit, but if an expression were to be derived for the emf induced in the coil, it would be an alternating emf. Does the back emf alternate back and forth completely or does it only vary sinousidally every half a period much like the emf provided in DC generators?
 
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It should alternate + and - similar to a sine wave.

When the torque on the coil is in the direction it is rotating, the back-emf is negative as in a DC motor, and current is reduced.
When the torque opposes the direction of rotation (i.e. it is being decelerated), the emf is positive, and current is increased.

Hope that helps.

p.s. I'm not sure if or how the changes in current would make the oscillations deviate from a true sine wave (it's getting late and it's been a while since I thought about this stuff).
 
I see...I was thinking that it was a sine wave, but one that didn't alternate so that it would increase the current (meaning that half the period would be cut off per cycle...sort of like the absolute value of the sine function instead).
 
Er, it will move but it will not rotate, it will position itself so that the N field of the coil points to the S pole of your magnet or vice versa, and stay like that till you switch current off. To get rotation you have now to change the direction of one of the magnetic fields somehow. That is the whole engineering question for how to make electric motors I think.
 
To get the "absolute value" effect, as is done with DC generators and motors, one needs to flip the leads of the rotating coil w.r.t. the output leads, before the emf goes to a negative value.

I found a good animation showing the effect. I can't post the url until after I've made 15 posts here, but if you Google "Simple direct current (DC) generators contain an armature" (including the quotes) the first link will show what I mean. Notice how the contacts get switched every half-cycle in the figure.
 

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