Back EMF Paradox: Is There a Contradiction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of back electromotive force (emf) in RL circuits, particularly focusing on the apparent paradox of back emf existing at the moment when current is zero. Participants explore the conditions under which back emf arises and its relationship with magnetic fields and current flow.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that back emf at t=0 in an RL circuit is nearly equal to the original emf source, questioning how this can occur when current is zero.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that a magnetic field is necessary for back emf, citing superconducting magnets as an example where a magnetic field exists without back emf.
  • Some participants emphasize that back emf arises from a change in the magnetic field rather than a static magnetic field, suggesting that a large change in current at t=0 leads to significant back emf.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of back emf, with some participants agreeing that it is induced by a changing magnetic field, while questioning the physical existence of back emf without current.
  • One participant references Faraday's law as the basis for understanding back emf, while another points out that the rate of change of current is what matters, not the current value itself.
  • Concerns are raised about the appropriateness of using superconductors as examples in this context, particularly in relation to the Meissner effect.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of current for back emf and the role of magnetic fields, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between static and changing magnetic fields in the context of back emf, but the discussion does not resolve the implications of these distinctions.

Conservation
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Correct me if I am wrong.

For a RL circuit, I know as a fact at t=0, there is a back emf that is almost equivalent to the original emf source. In order for the back emf to exist, there needs to be a magnetic field in the inductor. In order for there to be a magnetic field in the inductor, there needs to be a current flowing through the inductor. In fact, the current would need to be close to the maximum current to induce such a large back emf noticeable at t=0. Yet, at t=0, I also know that the current in an RL circuit is 0. And so on.

Is this a paradox? What did I miss here?
 
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Conservation said:
In order for the back emf to exist, there needs to be a magnetic field in the inductor.
This is incorrect. A magnetic field in an inductor does not produce any EMF. A good example is a superconducting MRI magnet where very large magnetic fields exist with no back EMF whatsoever.

A back EMF opposes a change in the magnetic field, not a static magnetic field. To get a large back EMF you need a large change in the field, which is, in fact, what you get in a RL circuit at t=0.
 
Hm...

The way that I learned back emf is that it is the induced emf from the changing magnetic field in the inductor. (Sorry, didn't say changing in OP) It makes sense that there would be a maximum back emf at the point of maximum rate of change of current, t=0; but to your definition, what accounts for the physical existence of a back emf? Without a current in the inductor, I don't see how there can be back emf.

Also, isn't a superconductor a bad example (Meissner effect)?
 
Last edited:
Conservation said:
The way that I learned back emf is that it is the induced emf from the changing magnetic field in the inductor. (Sorry, didn't say changing in OP) It makes sense that there would be a maximum back emf at the point of maximum rate of change of current, t=0;
Then it sounds like you learned it correctly, but simply are not applying it correctly. The basic equation for an inductor is ##v=L \; di/dt##. The actual value of i is not relevant, only the time rate of change of i.

Conservation said:
but to your definition, what accounts for the physical existence of a back emf?
Faraday's law accounts for the back emf.

Conservation said:
Also, isn't a superconductor a bad example (Meissner effect)?
In an inductor, including a superconducting inductor, the magnetic field goes around the wire, not through it. So the Meissner effect doesn't prevent a superconducting coil from acting like a big inductor. The point is that Faradays law, applied to a superconductor, allows a large field/current to exist without any EMF. It is only when you are changing the current that you get an EMF.
 

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