Balancing acidic and basic equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the balancing of acidic and basic chemical equations, specifically focusing on the correct placement of ions (H_3O, OH, H_2O) and the importance of oxidation states in the balancing process. Participants are working through specific reactions and exploring the implications of charge and half-reactions in both acidic and basic solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that all equations should include at least one H2O as a reactant, with basic solutions requiring OH- in the products and acidic solutions requiring H3O+.
  • There is a discussion about the importance of charges in balancing equations, with some participants questioning their relevance.
  • One participant emphasizes the need to write out half-reactions and determine oxidation states to aid in balancing the equations.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about how to balance electrons when there are no changes in oxidation state in certain reactions.
  • Some participants propose that balancing should involve adding H3O+ or OH- to one side of the equation depending on the medium.
  • There is a challenge regarding the correct application of coefficients in half-reactions to ensure that electrons are balanced.
  • Participants are refining their understanding of how to balance sulfur and oxygen in the reactions, indicating a need for clarity on the steps involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct approach to balancing the equations, with multiple competing views on the placement of ions and the significance of oxidation states. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to seek clarification and refine their methods.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the relevance of charges and oxidation states, indicating a potential gap in foundational understanding. There are also unresolved questions regarding the correct balancing of specific reactions and the implications of half-reaction methods.

  • #31
0__+5_-6____+2_+2_-2
Zn + NO3 --> Zn + N2O

The oxidation states should be the above - it's the balancing that is difficult.

We're going from -1 (+5 - 6= -1) to 0 (+2 -2=0)

NO_3^- \rightarrow N_2O +e^-
Now, the charge is correct, but the number of nitrogen atoms isn't. How do I fix that?

2NO_3^- \rightarrow N_2O +2e^-

How does that look?

Let's put it together

Zn + 2NO_3^- \rightarrow Zn^{2+} + 2e^- + N_2O +2e^-

The electrons end up on one side. Shouldn't there be equally as much on both sides so they can be cancelled?
 
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  • #32
What is the oxidation # for nitrogen in N2O? (its not +2)
 
  • #33
Isn't it +2 in total? I read that it's +1, but since there are two of them and since the entire molecule has a neutral charge, I assumed N2 was +2 and O was -2.

But maybe I shouldn't add them together.
 
  • #34
Let's not add them together.

0__+5_-6____+2_+1_-2
Zn + NO3 --> Zn + N2O

And if this is true, we have a sum of -1 on both sides. Meaning that the electrons are balanced. But is this even possible -> NO3- has a negative charge while N2O is neutral.
 
  • #35
reedy said:
Let's not add them together.

0__+5_-6____+2_+1_-2
Zn + NO3 --> Zn + N2O

And if this is true, we have a sum of -1 on both sides. Meaning that the electrons are balanced. But is this even possible -> NO3- has a negative charge while N2O is neutral.

So each nitrogen is going from a +5 to a +1. How would you write the half reaction for that reduction?
 
  • #36
Umm.

NO_3^- +4e^- \rightarrow N_2O

2NO_3^- +8e^- \rightarrow N_2O

and the other one goes from

Zn \rightarrow Zn^{2+} + 2e^-

4Zn \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + 8e^-

with balanced number of electrons

4Zn + 2NO_3^- +8e^- \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + N_2O + 8e^-Edit: Which would give

4Zn + 2NO_3^- \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + N_2O

and finally

4Zn + 2NO_3^- + 10H^+ \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + N_2O + 5H_2O
 
Last edited:
  • #37
reedy said:
Umm.

NO_3^- +4e^- \rightarrow N_2O

2NO_3^- +8e^- \rightarrow N_2O

and the other one goes from

Zn \rightarrow Zn^{2+} + 2e^-

4Zn \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + 8e^-

with balanced number of electrons

4Zn + 2NO_3^- +8e^- \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + N_2O + 8e^-


Edit: Which would give

4Zn + 2NO_3^- \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + N_2O

and finally

4Zn + 2NO_3^- + 10H^+ \rightarrow 4Zn^{2+} + N_2O + 5H_2O

I wish you could see the smile on my face...
 
  • #38
I wish I could show you my appreciation. :approve:

Moving on to the next problem-

0___+6-2_-1_______x_y___+2-2
Au + NO3-+Cl- ---> AuCl4- + NO

the oxidation numbers of Au and Cl4 in AuCl4 which kind of makes me wonder: what is the proper way of finding the oxidation numbers? Until now, I've used an online reference. These are great and ready to use, but it still seems kind of useless (atleast in this case since I can't find the compound I need). I've also noticed that Wikipedia has posted the oxidation states for all elements.
Oxidation states −1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
(amphoteric oxide)
How can I use these numbers to my advantage?

I need x and y to move on to the next level.
 
  • #39
For chlorides it is generally the case that the oxidation state is -1. There may be a case in which chlorine has a different oxidation state as in sodium hypochlorite, NaClO.

I would assume that chlorine has a -1 oxidation state and then look at the metal's oxidation state. I would then refer to a table of oxidation states that have been observed for the metal and if that fits, go with it...
 
  • #40
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #41
reedy said:
"http://library.thinkquest.org/C004970/atoms/oxidation.htm"
So assuming that chlorine is -1, I'd guess that the Au is +3 in AuCl4- to give the negative charge.

"All compounds have a net oxidation state of zero. The oxidation state of all of the atoms add up to zero."
Now if this is true, that would make the golds oxidation number +4, right?

English not being my first language, maybe I'm mixing the terms a bit. What should I believe? What is true? What is correct in this case?

Both are correct. The second rule assumes a neutral complex whereas the first rule assumes an ion complex.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #42
This being an ion, I say Au in the compound is +3.

_{0} \ \ \ \ \ \ \ _{+6} _{-2}\ \ \ \ \ _{-1}\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ _{+3}\ _{-1}\ \ \ \ \ \ _{+2}\ _{-2}
Au + NO_3^- + Cl^- \rightarrow AuCl_4^- + NO

I'm guessing this one would need three half reactions.

Au \rightarrow AuCl_4^- + 3e^-

NO_3^- + 4e^- \rightarrow NO

4Cl^- \rightarrow AuCl_4^-
--------
Balancing the electrons:

4Au \rightarrow 4AuCl_4^- + 12e^-

3NO_3^- + 12e^- \rightarrow 3NO

16Cl^- \rightarrow 4AuCl_4^-
--------
Putting it all together:

4Au + 3NO_3^- + 16Cl^- \rightarrow 4AuCl_4^- + 3NO
--------
Finishing it off:

4Au + 3NO_3^- + 16Cl^- + 12H^+ \rightarrow 4AuCl_4^- + 3NO + 6H_2O

What's the verdict?
 
  • #43
Looks good.
 

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