Biological life as hard as iron?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of biological life evolving materials with hardness comparable to iron, particularly in a low-tech society where metals are scarce. Participants explore various natural materials and concepts that could serve as alternatives to metal for tools, weapons, and armor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests the idea of a tree analog that could evolve to have wood or bark as hard as iron or bronze, without using naturally occurring iron.
  • Another participant questions the use of the term "hard," proposing that "tough" might be more appropriate, citing spider silk as an example of toughness rather than hardness.
  • Chitin, sporopollenin, and beta-amyloid proteins are mentioned as natural materials that could potentially offer strength, with spider silk noted for its tensile strength.
  • A participant discusses the potential of wood, when treated properly, to become harder than steel.
  • Biogenic silica is proposed as a material that could be used to create crystalline structures resembling diamond, leading to the idea of shiny swords and crystalline forests.
  • Carbon nanotubes are suggested as a possible outcome of life forms that build carbon chains, offering another avenue for creating strong biological materials.
  • Some participants reference existing fictional works, such as "Avatar," to illustrate concepts of strong biological materials, while others express skepticism about using such examples as realistic references.
  • There is a mention of natural structures like elephant tusks and turtle shells as examples of strong biological materials, though they may not match iron's strength.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion features multiple competing views on the feasibility and nature of biological materials that could match iron's hardness. Participants express differing opinions on terminology and the realism of proposed materials, indicating that consensus has not been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of specificity in questions regarding material properties, suggesting that assumptions about hardness and toughness may vary. The discussion also reflects a blend of realism and speculative ideas, with some contributions leaning towards more fantastical elements.

Kepler20f
Would it be possible for biological life to evolve a part of itself to be as hard as iron?

I’m thinking of a tree analog. The wood or bark can replace metal for a low-tech society. The planet itself is deficient in metals because of its history, so I’m not thinking that the life form uses naturally-occurring iron as part of its makeup, even if that were deemed possible. Just a variation on bark/wood that is this hard. Or at least as hard as bronze, significantly stronger than wood on Earth. What do you think?
 
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Iron is not that hard. Steel is harder, but still far from the really hard materials.

Do you really mean "hard"? Perhaps you mean "tough"?

Spider silk is extremely tough, so tough it was tested for use in bulletproof vests. But "tough" doesn't mean "hard".
 
Thanks guys. Hmm, semantics of tough, hard etc. I mean rigid and durable. Something that could be used instead of metal for weapons, armour, utensils and tools for a bronze/iron age equivalent civilisation. They wouldn't have the patience to wind spider silk into armour! Though I am considering something like silk. And I didn't know kevlar was organic, I'll look into that thanks. Thanks for the links Enigman, will check them out.
 
Doing some research I stumbled across this page

Basically good old wood can with the right treatment become harder then steel. the page describes the basic process.
 
Thank you Nimbian, appreciate the help. Great article! Everything I've seen so far seems to show that my idea is feasible.
 
Yeah that's good, thanks Enigman. I think my story will be a combination of realism and some more out there stuff, with the former hopefully helping to suspend disbelief in the latter... Cool shiny swords are probably too shiny for this story though, which is distinctly grubby in flavour. Could use the idea somewhere else maybe. Cheers!
 
Use life form that builds carbon chains, effectively forming carbon nanotubes or something similar.
 
  • #10
MartinV said:
Use life form that builds carbon chains, effectively forming carbon nanotubes or something similar.

Thanks Martin, interesting idea
 
  • #11
Hardly a new one, carbon fibers were said to be enforcing skeletons of species living on Pandora (Avatar).
 
  • #12
Well in terms of decent, plausible sci-fi I'm not exactly going to hold that film up as a shining example! Never mind the flying islands, how about an earthlike world with a breathable atmosphere, a full biosphere and sentient humanoid life, in the very next star systetm to ours! That was a film for the Transformers fans...
Anyway I think people are reading too much into my question. There was a very specific reason that I asked for 'hard as iron' because that is EXACTLY as hard/tough etc as I wanted it. No harder. My story doesn't call for supermaterials. I can see I have to be very specific with my questions.
But thanks for the responses all the same.
 
  • #13
Could the mentioned things (biogenic silica, natural carbon fibers) justify bullet resistant life-forms? (I think about W40k orks.)
 
  • #14
probably not quite as strong as iron but sum tusks/horns from elephants and rhinos are pretty strong and also turtle shells
and the dinosaur that hed buts every thing
 

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