Bomb blast in Oslo; PM's office building targeted.

[pftest]

In the discovery show there was a young man who begged for his life, then Breivik turned around and yelled "today is the day you will all die" and killed someone else. Then he went to the young man and shot him in the shoulder. So it sounds like Breivik didnt try to spare him, he just aimed badly.

 

[arildno]

Maybe for the simple fact that he doesn’t have any... he just wants it to look that way...

It is part of his mind game.
What he is after, and he is quite clear about it, is to induce paranoia in the ruling multi-cultural elites, so that these will repress perfectly legitimate critics of multi-culturalism.
These then, within Breivik's mind, will then lose the belief in the democratic process and turn to violence instead.
To indicate that there exist a number of as yet undisclosed terror cells will maximize the probability that such a witch hunt begins.

Breivik is a nihilist and self-appointed harbinger of the apocalypse, the best way to deal with him is to have a political climate in which he is utterly irrelevant, and just a disgusting, evil aberration.
That will also hurt him the most..

 

[DevilsAvocado]

It is part of his mind game.
What he is after, and he is quite clear about it, is to induce paranoia in the ruling multi-cultural elites, so that these will repress perfectly legitimate critics of multi-culturalism.
These then, within Breivik's mind, will then lose the belief in the democratic process and turn to violence instead.
To indicate that there exist a number of as yet undisclosed terror cells will maximize the probability that such a witch hunt begins.

Breivik is a nihilist and self-appointed harbinger of the apocalypse, the best way to deal with him is to have a political climate in which he is utterly irrelevant, and just a disgusting, evil aberration.
That will also hurt him the most..

Agree.

I don’t like to get too 'melodramatic & emotional' (except for the initial shock), but I would be lying in not admitting that this kind of "mind" frightens me...

The 'layman picture' of severe mental illness is a person in total chaos, incapable of performing the simplest everyday tasks.

This is something else... and it looks like that even the professors can’t agree on what it is...

 

[arildno]

This is something else... and it looks like that even the professors can’t agree on what it is...

I think "evil" is the appropriate term..

 

[lisab]

I think "evil" is the appropriate term..

For make no mistake: evil does exist in the world.

-- From President Obama's Nobel acceptance speech

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I think "evil" is the appropriate term..

For make no mistake: evil does exist in the world.

hum... suddenly I’ve got a weird feeling there’s something wrong with my username... [STRIKE]D[/STRIKE]evils[STRIKE]Avocado[/STRIKE]... can one change...?

Seriously, you are both right, it’s just (stupid) me who wants a "clinical & logical explanation", where possible no 'logic' can be found – just pure evil.

It’s just that Norway is the last place on Earth I suspected this kind evilness could 'arise'... maybe if it had been on Kim Jong-Il’s backyard... it would have been easier to digest...

 

[mheslep]

Arildno for Norwegian PM

 

[mheslep]

It is part of his mind game.
What he is after, and he is quite clear about it, is to induce paranoia in the ruling multi-cultural elites, so that these will repress perfectly legitimate critics of multi-culturalism.
These then, within Breivik's mind, will then lose the belief in the democratic process and turn to violence instead.
[...]

Breivik is a nihilist and self-appointed harbinger of the apocalypse, the best way to deal with him is to have a political climate in which he is utterly irrelevant, and just a disgusting, evil aberration.
That will also hurt him the most..

Interestingly that is also a near perfect description of, and prescription for, the late Osama Bin Laden and Sayyid Qutb before him in Egypt.

 

[pftest]

Apparently the police in norway say that Breivik has videotaped his utoya rampage, but they haven't found the camera yet.

 

[pftest]

I came across this video which addresses the issue of who is also responsible for Breiviks acts (right wing, antiislamists, the media, religion, or other):



Of course this is his personal opinion but i think he makes some good points. It seems like he actually read (at least parts of) Breiviks manuscript and that Breivik himself described what lead him to do what he did.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... It seems like he actually read (at least parts of) Breiviks manuscript and that Breivik himself described what lead him to do what he did.

Well, that would be a little bit like reading Mein Kampf to find 'logical' motives for Adolf Hitler’s Holocaust, wouldn’t it?

 

[arildno]

Is it wrong to read "Mein Kampf" in order to ascertain those elements in Hitler's personal life that he himself regarded as pivotal in shaping his outlook?

If it is, in some weird fashion, wrong to do so, what individuals have more authority to establish the correct factors of Hitler's radicalization than Hitler himself?

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Sure, but I do think you missed 'logical' in my post...

(watch the video, if you haven’t)

 

[arildno]

I've seen the video.
It is complete nonsense, and malevolent nonsense as that, to hold Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer "morally" responsible for Breivik's actions.
But that is precisely what New York Times and other idiot media outlets are trying to do.
Anything further you would say upon the matter?

 

[pftest]

Because Breivik planned his acts meticulously and well in advance, i wouldn't be surprised if he has some plans for what to do during captivity. His intent seemed to be to cause maximum shock to society, and unless he completely changed his mind, he is going to continue this while in custody. Basically i would expect him to behave like a troll (a norwegian term...). The other day the dutch news reported that he videotaped his shootings on utoya, but that the police hadnt found the camera yet. I am starting to think that this is a nonsense story, because i haven't seen it reported elsewhere. But the first thing that came to mind was that he buried the camera somewhere and that its uploaded the video to some website (its all possible nowadays) and that he when given the chance to talk publicly, can release its url/password, or the coordinates of where its buried. This is something that would fit right in his goal, what's more shocking than hearing about a mass killing, than seeing it on video a few weeks later? I am probably off into conspiracy land here, buts hope it doesn't happen.

 

[pftest]

I've seen the video.
It is complete nonsense, and malevolent nonsense as that, to hold Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer "morally" responsible for Breivik's actions.
But that is precisely what New York Times and other idiot media outlets are trying to do.
Anything further you would say upon the matter?

I didnt know they were blaming right wing people in america until i saw that video. I thought it was limited to the netherlands where they are blaming Geert Wilders (who is mentioned in breiviks manuscript and also the video on the previous page) for breiviks acts. He is a politician against islam, and because he says things like banning/taxing headscarfs, banning the quran, etc., the left wing now call him hitler, nazi, racist, dutroux(belgian childraper/killer), mentally ill, etc. Even a few pages ago in this topic a fellow dutchman started talking about how the netherlands is going to start gassing muslims... And what's the worst mr Wilders has said? Calling the headscarf a piece of cloth that should be taxed.

 

[arildno]

"The other day the dutch news reported that he videotaped his shootings on utoya, but that the police hadnt found the camera yet. I am starting to think that this is a nonsense story, because i haven't seen it reported elsewhere."

It is from Norwegian media:
1. Breivik has said in his manifesto that it might be a "good thing" to film the "martyrdom operation", if he got the chance

2. The police has confirmed that video cameras were found on his FARM, and that these are now secured.

3. The police have confirmed that they have searched Utøya for electronic devices; unfortunately, they have HUNDREDS of mobiles and so on, so that they cannot as yet confirm that they have found something Breivik had with him, rather than something belonging to one of his victims.

4. The police has, as yet, not commented upon whether Breivik has said in his interrogations (40 hours+ now) that he DID film, or if he merely had planned it, but didn't do it.

That is how this facet of the Breivik case is looking at the moment.

 

[Proton Soup]

Is it wrong to read "Mein Kampf" in order to ascertain those elements in Hitler's personal life that he himself regarded as pivotal in shaping his outlook?

If it is, in some weird fashion, wrong to do so, what individuals have more authority to establish the correct factors of Hitler's radicalization than Hitler himself?

no, it's not wrong. unless you've got other documentation to show that Hitler wrote Mein Kampf not as reflection of his outlook, but as a way to influence others' opinions.

i was just looking at Breivik's manifesto to see if the references to MEMRI were indeed there, and the thing is just chock full of footnotes. it will be pretty easy to go back and see whose ideas he was influenced by.

 

[DoggerDan]

I like this: http://www.nj.com/times-opinion/index.ssf/2011/08/opinion_norway_killings_show_i.html

 

[arildno]

Actually, Norway has fairly LENIENT gun control laws:
If you sign up for an arms club, like Breivik did, and go through a few weeks' course as he did, and then appply for a gun permit, you'll get it if you haven't a criminal record. Breivik obtained his gun&rsemi-automatic rifle through entirely legal channels,without any thorough scanning of his personality or motives. It was enough, for example,to say he wanted to "shoot deer" to get his rifle.

The point is, rather, that very few Norwegians bother to get permits in the first place.

If something IS restrictive in Norwegian law, it is laws governing CARRYING permits of loaded weapons, rather than getting the guns in the first place. (Obviously, it was illegal for Breivik to carry loaded guns into a congregation of civilians, not to mention using them to massacre the youths..)

 

[arildno]

Breivik returned to Utøya today.

Today, under heavy guard, Anders Breivik re-visited the scene of the horrible massacre.
This is part of the police's detailed reconstruction of the events there; Breivik is said to have a "good memory" of each murder he committed.

To get the fullest possible murder-by-murder account is NOT primarily to remove doubts of Breivik's guilt (in addition to the terrorism charges, Breivik is most likely to be charged with a specific murder charge for each victim, and attempts at murder for hundreds more), but to give the police information that they know the families of the bereaved generally wants about how, specifically, their lost one met his or her end.

 

[arildno]

Bomb reconstructed according to Breivik's specifications

A major theme in the police investigations up to this point has been to clarify if Mr. Breivik actually had the knowledge and capability to make the bomb that hit Oslo.

Clearly, if he did NOT possesses such skill, there must have been accomplices.

Today, with the remains of the mixed fertilizer&diesel material found on Breivik's farm, a bomb of similar size to the one in Oslo as made along the lines specified by Breivik, and detonated at a place our armed forces have for such explosions.

The immediate results has prompted the police to say they are strengthened in the belief that Breivik was, indeed, acting alone, but that detailed analyses of the impact of this bomb had with the one in Oslo must still be carried out.