News Breaking Down the 2016 POTUS Race Contenders & Issues

[mheslep]

Trump has said he's the law and Order candidate, i saw the clip last night.
...

I see you and Astro are right, since the VP - Pence announcement he's introduced that language.

 

[gleem]

Tony Schwartz the ghost writer who helped Trump write "The Art of the Deal" is now apologizing for his part.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/19/us/politics/trump-book-tony-schwartz.html

So should we believe him or should be believe all those who have talked with him privately and say that he is a wonder person and not the one who we see publicly?

 

[jim hardy]

So should we believe him or should be believe all those who have talked with him privately and say that he is a wonder person and not the one who we see publicly?

Whichever you did on Swiftboats ?

 

[CalcNerd]

I feel that if we elect Hillary, we deserve better; if we elect Donald, we deserve Donald.
.
I suspect this isn't just my opinion only.

 

[axmls]

Meanwhile, we could be seeing a third-party candidate in the debates. Libertarian Gary Johnson reaches 13% backing in the latest CNN poll: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...on-bill-weld-edit-0720-md-20160719-story.html

15% support in 5 national polls will allow him into the debates. It's worth noting that the libertarian ticket may be the most qualified contenders, with 2 two-term governors. Given the record-high disapproval rating for both republican and democratic candidates, this year seems to be the best possible year for a third party to win, though that is still quite unlikely.

 

[gleem]

With so many unhappy voters looking for alternatives I would think the media would take this opportunity to stir the pot a bit and do the country a service by giving Johnson some attention in the following months.

 

[jim hardy]

With so many unhappy voters looking for alternatives I would think the media would take this opportunity to stir the pot a bit and do the country a service by giving Johnson some attention in the following months.

 

[gleem]

And your point?

 

[axmls]

I don't know that anyone believes Gary Johnson would be a perfect president or that he was a perfect governor. He did have high approval as a republican in a blue state. He did face opposition from the 60% democratic legislature. But he does have a record of cutting taxes and left office with a surplus (from what I can find), and he's a lot more honest than two other candidates who shall remain unnamed

Besides. A couple billion of debt is nothing compared to a nearly useless $20 billion wall.

 

[russ_watters]

With so many unhappy voters looking for alternatives I would think the media would take this opportunity to stir the pot a bit and do the country a service by giving Johnson some attention in the following months.

I think that would depend on what the media wants.

 

[jim hardy]

And your point?

That doesn't look like fiscal balance .

 

[gleem]

I can't seem to draw a significant conclusion from that. It seems irrelevant considering the fiscal policies that Clinton and Trump espouse.

 

[axmls]

That doesn't look like fiscal balance .

A debt chart by itself doesn't convey enough information. There could be a lot of reasons for increased debt--a democratic legislature (60% in Johnson's case), for instance. It could also have been the case that the debt was rising under previous governors but Johnson slowed the growth (but a lot can still happen in 8 years). There's also the fact that Johnson was able to make a lot of tax cuts and left office with a large surplus. There are a lot more variables than "the debt rose, so he's not good in terms of fiscal policy."

The debt has risen under most (all?) presidents. However Johnson at least warrants some looking at given his popularity in a state where he shouldn't be popular (fairly blue state) and for some of his other policies, if one feels they're in line with their own. I say this particularly since Johnson is known for being pretty honest and lacking corruption, which are rare qualities this election cycle.

 

[jim hardy]

I can't seem to draw a significant conclusion from that. It seems irrelevant considering the fiscal policies that Clinton and Trump espouse.

well,, i thought libertarians reduce size of government and cut spending.
Looks like the opposite happened in NM during his tenure, of course i don't live there so just glanced at the stats.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1990_2015NMb_17s2li111mcn_F0t

He seems to me a Libertarian in name only.

But if you want to cast a protest vote...,

 

[jim hardy]

I say this particularly since Johnson is known for being pretty honest and lacking corruption, which are rare qualities this election cycle.

That would be a fresh breeze.

 

[gleem]

Johnson has received 13% of the votes in a recent national poll. Two more and he can debate. At least we might get a chance to evaluate him.

 

[axmls]

Looks to me like spending sharply increased after he left office, while it was still gradual during his tenure. That said, this doesn't take into account the population growth of New Mexico at the time. Of course spending will be higher if the state is making more money. Unfortunately it's difficult to see the whole picture, so it's hard to evaluate how well his policies worked.

That said, we know what he claims to adhere to, and we can judge him on that. One of his campaign promises is that he'll sign any legislation to reduce or simplify taxes and that he'll veto any legislation that doesn't pay for itself. He did reduce taxes over a dozen times, veto over 750 legislative pieces, and he cut over 1000 government jobs, so I think we can give him some credit for following through on what are supposed to be libertarian principles. Also, about 1/3 of his vetoes were of republican legislation, so that kind of strengthens his credence. It's worth noting that he never held a political office before running for governor. That just leaves the debt problem, and ideally we'll be able to see his explanation for that during the debates, as we should.

An interesting fact, and I'll try to find the source where I read this but don't have the time right now, is that Johnson's campaign has found that he is pulling voters from both Democrats and Republicans about equally (slightly more democrat) in the polls. If this is truly the case, it strengthens the argument that he has the greatest chance of winning as a third party candidate in a long time (even past '92, since I believe Perot stole votes mostly from Bush), however low that chance is.

I have my problems with him, but his honesty is refreshing, to be honest, and I think, since we in America are in the mood to fight against the establishment, it doesn't hurt to see a strong third party candidate.

 

[gleem]

The next poll should be interesting. Since the "Dump Trump" movement failed how many of those who supported it will remain faithful to the GOP.

 

[Evo]

Question for those that would vote for Trump just to thumb their nose at established government without regard for the consequences, how do you feel about his VP pick?

Mike Pence just destroyed Trump’s chances of winning over Bernie Sanders voters

If Trump "had picked a more moderate person instead of the devil incarnate, he would have been more appealing,"Javiera C wrote. "We all know Trump will probably get impeached in the first year so his VP will be president."

Another Facebook user suggested Trump's pick of an establishment Republican like Pence taints his credentials as an anti-establishment outsider, while yet another vowed that Pence only increased her opposition to Trump.

But picking a deeply religious, anti-abortion, anti-LGBT rights, old white male probably won't boost those sagging numbers among a Sanders coalition made up, in large part, of young professional and millennial voters less religious and in favor of gay marriage and LGBT equality.

Even more toxic in Trump's quest to sway fed up Sanders supporters: Pence's religious-freedom law, that would have given business owners the right to refuse service to gay customers, which he was forced to retreat from after a political firestorm.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/18/mike...ng-over-bernie-sanders-voters-commentary.html

 

[mheslep]

I feel that if we elect Hillary, we deserve better; if we elect Donald, we deserve Donald.
.
I suspect this isn't just my opinion only.

Ironically, I think conditions leading to the notion that a waiver can be granted to democracy for the maxim "you get what you deserve" *only* for the establishment candidate is the reason for the rise of Trump.

 

[mheslep]

I don't know that anyone believes Gary Johnson would be a perfect president or that he was a perfect governor. He did have high approval as a republican in a blue state. He did face opposition from the 60% democratic legislature. But he does have a record of cutting taxes and left office with a surplus (from what I can find), and he's a lot more honest than two other candidates who shall remain unnamed

Besides. A couple billion of debt is nothing compared to a nearly useless $20 billion wall.

I'd love to see a libertarian-ish candidate win. A serious one. Johnson is not, governor or no. His description of the immigration issue is incoherent, delusional, even compared to Trump/Hillary. It sounds as if he is going to add "smoke up" at the end of every sentence.

Sen Paul was a serious candidate.

 

[mheslep]

...

The debt has risen under most (all?) presidents. ...

The debt did not just rise, it doubled under Obama. Given the spending proposals he and Pelosi raised, if not for the GOP takeover in Congress a 250% increase was likely.

Johnson could well make the debt worse. He explicitly states he wants open borders. That doesn't work with a large welfare state. While recent history shows as President he can unilaterally have an open border, he can *not* unilaterally shut down the welfare state. A Congress run by existing parties that can gather super majorities really does not need a 3rd party President for much of anything.

 

[mheslep]

...



http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/18/mike...ng-over-bernie-sanders-voters-commentary.html

So says, Jordan Chariton, a political reporter for "The Young Turks" news show. Ever seen Young Turks?

 

[Evo]

So says, Jordan Chariton, a political reporter for "The Young Turks" news show. Ever seen Young Turks?

No.

 

[Astronuc]

Trump supporter tells Utah delegate: ‘You should die!’
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-supporter-tells-utah-delegate-you-should-die-172211021.html

So much for uniting the nation, let alone the party.

What's with the hostility and intimidation?

 

[Evo]

IMO, the whole thing is a sad joke.

 

[1oldman2]

IMO, the whole thing is a sad joke.

Exactly my thoughts, the US is out of good options now and it seems most of the world will be laughing at this sad joke soon.

 

[JohnDillinger2]

Question for those that would vote for Trump just to thumb their nose at established government without regard for the consequences, how do you feel about his VP pick?
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/18/mike...ng-over-bernie-sanders-voters-commentary.html

Trump was never going to win the far left of the country that burns American flags and thinks Trump is literally Hitler. He relies on "silent majority" type voters that are working class and care only about getting a job. I could see Pence being a solid pick for these types, especially if they're religious. I consider myself an independent and sympathetic to both Trump and Sanders based solely on my personal interest in how they view trade. Supporting the middle class is what matters to me.

Some of the topics brought up in that article like gay marriage and LGBT rights are totally frivolous. While I care about equality, these are not front and center issues that should be deciding people's votes.

 

[jim hardy]

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/18/mike...ng-over-bernie-sanders-voters-commentary.html

Who the heck is Jordan Chariton?

He doesn't seem to like either candidate very much

http://www.mediaite.com/online/why-...-may-cost-democrats-more-than-the-presidency/

Becky Ruis, and Sanders supporters like her, doesn’t give a fig about helping Hillary Clinton defeat Donald Trump.

Why would they — what has the Democratic Party asking for her vote done for her and her family?

[did they _jh] Jail bankers responsible for her plight? No.

[did they _jh] Respond to an epic financial disaster — similar in scale to the Great Depression— and reinstate Glass-Steagall and take the keys to the car away from Wall Street? Nope.
With a Democratic President and Democratic House and Senate, [did they _jh] bailout the millions of displaced homeowners and laid off workers with direct financial relief, or expand special government-funded jobs, like rebuilding our roads and bridges?

A bailout happened: for bankers, who responded by showering themselves with millions in bonuses.

[did they _jh] Create special job programs for minority communities with ungodly unemployment rates? Infuse low-income communities with free educational programs, like say public college?

Ha!

...

Sure, the pundits warn of the looming epic disaster of a President Trump. What they can’t grasp — for Becky, and millions like her, they’re already living a quiet disaster.

One where personal growth and fulfillment has long been tossed aside; in its place — never-ending survival mode.

Fortunately for wealthy Democratic lawmakers, survival is something they don’t currently have to worry about.

They can continue to rest on their collective laurels, thinking changing demographics alone will guarantee the party presidential victories.

But, aside from the consistent polls showing Bernie Sanders as http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html, they might want to rethink a Clinton nomination.

Or fall into survival mode as a party in the years to come.

When the millions of young voters across colors rejecting its brand of neoliberalism, and “pragmatism,” go in a different direction.

Like a revolution.

i may like him more than i expected.

 

[jtbell]

I never thought I would ever smile while watching or reading about Ted Cruz. But I guess there's a first time for everything!

Defiant Ted Cruz stands by refusal to endorse Trump after being booed during convention speech (CNN)