pftest said:
There are major differences between islam and christianity, just as there are between buddhism and christianity. It wouldn't be accurate to lump it all together as equals. For example, the quran calls for wifebeating in some instance, and its central character (who is for all muslims THE example on how to live) had sex with a child, engaged in war and slavery, beheaded hundreds of people, and called for violence against anyone who wasnt muslim. Compare that with the central character of christianity or buddhism. The book is also written as if god adresses you directly, as opposed to the often vague metaphorical and historical description of events from the bible. This is like the difference between telling a child "in worldwar 2, people killed jews" (historical description) and "go out and kill jews" (being adressed directly). The latter also has a timeless sense to it.
Christianity, as it is mostly explained, is opposed to violence and adultery. We subsequently ended up with a culture where, to some extent, both are glorified. How do you explain that relation with the Bible? Or colonialism, the subjugation of women, religious intolerance, condemnation of homosexuality, and support for the institution of slavery in both Old and New Testaments. More than that, you comment on the life of Muhammed; that makes me laugh given the amount of pedophile cases at the moment in the Catholic Church.
The life of Muhammed is also criticized from within Islam culture for centuries, and moderates explain it as that should be seen with respect to the manners of that time. I think most muslims would laugh at your description, whatever he did has little bearing to them.
There are just as many verses, if not more, that other cultures should be treated with respect. Moreover, there have been many accounts in history were muslim nations were the dominant culture and other religions were treated with respect.
I do not agree with the thought that culture only influences religion and not the other way around. For one, the religion itself sprang into existence from a desert culture. Secondly, both culture and religion are just sets of ideas and as such interact both ways. If a region becomes islamised then it will affect culture there. For example, verses about women not being allowed to look men in the eye and having to hide their beauty and wear veils, are going to have an impact on how women act and dress and how men behave towards them. The distinction between religious and culturally inspired behaviour is also going to be blurry. A simple verse dictating that women must guard their modesty, combined with strong familial ties, can have all kinds of unforeseen consequences, from honor killings to circumcision.
Why do you describe it as a desert culture, why is that relevant? As far as I know Judaism and Christianity came from the same region? Would it be different if it would have sprung from a mountain culture? Forests?
What does it mean for a culture to become 'islamized'? Do you think it has a lot to do with religion? If anything, like our Christening of other cultures, I would give to you that it more involves imposing the morals of one culture on another, and that that has little to do with a specific religion.
If women wearing veils is the worst of Islam, I don't know what you're afraid about. Moreover, there are muslim cultures where the reverse is even true: men wear veils and women don't.
Islam has to do with it because it is written black and white in the quran, which is the essence of islam. I don't think it will help to say that one is against wifebeating, racism, etc., but deny that islam has anything to do with it. I think it would be more helpful to educate people about the dark side of islam. Show them the good, bad and ugly part of it. Right now all many ever hear is a rather biased story from their parents about it being pure goodness. Show them the ugly parts and they will understand the criticism better and warn their kids about it too. I think it would work better than telling them nothing is wrong with the religion and that all the criticism is uninformed xenofobia.
And everything is written black on white in the Bible too. In my country, in the Bible belt, that means that women cannot hold positions of authority, shouldn't vote, and have a modest life. They also hear a biased form that everything is nice and dandy. I don't see the difference.
According to the Quran, you can beat a woman in circumstances as long as it doesn't hurt.
The argument that Islam is racist is new to me. As far as I know, all races visit Mecca.
There is something wrong with all religions, and all religions are as opportunistic as politicians. If anything, I rather expect tattooed muslimas sunbathing topless on our beaches in a few decades than anything else [if that fool of ours doesn't shut up and drives everybody into radicalism]. And imams will cry out because of that, and subsequently cave in. It is the same struggle as we had with the Catholic church.
Moreover, I give it to you that Christianity at the moment is only in a peaceful state (from our perspective, others would laugh at that notion), since it is the dominant manner of living for a few decades and most Christians lived in relative wealth. If it would be the reverse, we would be seen as the threatening, violent, and expansion-driven ideology.
(I would give to you the Serbian/Kosovo conflict. Who's the agressor exactly? Would you allow muslims to generalize from that, and derive anti-Christianity ideologies from that?)
