Bremsstrahlung wavelength range

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the efficiency of X-ray tubes in producing X-ray energy, specifically focusing on the calculation of energy percentages between minimum and maximum wavelengths for a given input voltage. Participants also explore alternative methods for generating high-energy photons, such as synchrotron radiation and free electron lasers, while addressing concerns about electron interactions with atomic nuclei.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to calculate the percentage of energy converted to X-rays in an X-ray tube with an input voltage of over 4,000,000 volts, aiming for an efficiency of 90%.
  • Another participant challenges the feasibility of achieving 90% efficiency, noting that X-ray tubes typically operate at less than 1% efficiency, with most energy lost as heat.
  • A participant mentions the potential of synchrotron radiation as a more efficient alternative but questions its applicability for 4 MeV energy.
  • Further exploration into free electron lasers suggests that 19.7 GeV electrons may be required for certain applications, with alternative methods involving hard drive disks potentially needing 62 MeV electrons.
  • Concerns are raised about the energy levels required to produce MeV radiation, emphasizing the need for intense electric fields around atoms.
  • One participant claims that a synchrotron could produce 4 MeV with 400 MeV electrons and a 15-meter diameter, but this assertion is met with skepticism regarding the feasibility of such a setup.
  • Questions arise about the necessity of 4 MeV energy, with suggestions that 2.5 MeV from radioactive sources may suffice for some experiments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the efficiency of X-ray tubes and the feasibility of achieving high-energy photon production through various methods. There is no consensus on the energy requirements or the effectiveness of synchrotron radiation for the specified application.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various energy levels and configurations for generating high-energy photons, but the discussion includes unresolved assumptions about the efficiency of different methods and the specific requirements for the intended experiments.

pixelpuffin
Messages
44
Reaction score
1
i need to calculate what percentage of the energy put into a X-ray tube will be between the minimum wavelength and the longest wavelength suitable for it's application (as to calculate how efficiently it does it's job) with only the input voltage (unless the anode material is important)
the input voltage of the X-ray tube is >4,000,000 volts (because the minimum energy photon i need is 4MeV)
the wavelength range is 4MeV or 3.1e-7 micrometers or 9.6e11 Ghz to the input voltage
the efficiency required is 90%

also at what voltage will i start to have electron soar right into the nucleus and turn a proton into a neutron because that would cause problems (though it seems in most cases they synthesised nucleus would quickly decay back spitting out an electron in the process)
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
X-ray tubes are typically less than 1% efficient at turning electrical energy into X-ray energy. Most of the input energy ends up as heat. I think an efficiency of 90% is out of the question. Perhaps you should look into synchrotron radiation, which can be much more efficient.
 
i meant the efficiency after losses to heat but ill also look into that
 
after some research on free electron lasers and synchrotrons i found that with magnets i could make i'd need 19.7 GeV electrons
i also found two potential options though
if i could use hard drive disks with back and forth 1s to 0s i would only need 62 MeV electrons (assuming the magnets are 10 nanometers across)
alternatively i could have an incredibly powerful magnet at the end of a vacuum tube that turns the electrons very suddenly however I'm not sure how to calculate the electron energy required
i would guess that it would act like a single very small magnet (how far the electron gets by the midpoint of the turn?) and thus could be calculated with either the same or a similar equation
 
Last edited:
phyzguy said:
X-ray tubes are typically less than 1% efficient at turning electrical energy into X-ray energy. Most of the input energy ends up as heat. I think an efficiency of 90% is out of the question. Perhaps you should look into synchrotron radiation, which can be much more efficient.
Synchrotron radiation for 4 MeV? I didn't see that so far.

if i could use hard drive disks with back and forth 1s to 0s i would only need 62 MeV electrons (assuming the magnets are 10 nanometers across)
They are not, and they are not strong enough for significant radiation. It would also mean your beam would need a focus of a few nanometers (to see those magnets at all).
If you want to get MeV radiation out of electrons, you'll need the intense electric fields around atoms, which means you are back to the x-ray tube principle.

Why do you need 4 MeV?
You can get up to 2.5 MeV with radioactive sources.
 
mfb said:
If you want to get MeV radiation out of electrons, you'll need the intense electric fields around atoms, which means you are back to the x-ray tube principle.

Why do you need 4 MeV?
You can get up to 2.5 MeV with radioactive sources.

actually after some research i found i could make a synchrotron output 4 MeV with a mere 15 meter diameter and 400 MeV electrons (synchrotron in question can handle up to 1 GeV)

2.5 Mev isn't high enough energy for the experiment i want to do
 
pixelpuffin said:
actually after some research i found i could make a synchrotron output 4 MeV with a mere 15 meter diameter and 400 MeV electrons (synchrotron in question can handle up to 1 GeV)

2.5 Mev isn't high enough energy for the experiment i want to do

Are you sure? After researching it a little more I think that mfb is right that 4 MeV is too high a photon energy for most synchrotron sources. How did you decide that 400 MeV electrons and a 15 m radius will output 4 MeV photons?
 
pixelpuffin said:
actually after some research i found i could make a synchrotron output 4 MeV with a mere 15 meter diameter and 400 MeV electrons (synchrotron in question can handle up to 1 GeV)
How, where?

2.5 Mev isn't high enough energy for the experiment i want to do
What do you want to do?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
14K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
11K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
859
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K