Brownian motion demonstration in class

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around demonstrating Brownian motion in a classroom setting using a vibrating platform with powders of varying grain sizes. Participants explore the expected behavior of a ball placed on the vibrating surface and its relation to Einstein's analysis of atomic size through Brownian motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that larger grains will result in slower ball movement, questioning how this relates to Einstein's formula for atomic size.
  • Another participant argues that the ball's motion will primarily be influenced by its contact with the vibrator, indicating that inelastic collisions may not accurately simulate Brownian motion.
  • A clarification is made that the ball is placed gently, and the focus is on observing its motion rather than its flight path.
  • There is a shared expectation that the average distance the ball travels will decrease as the grain size increases, although participants express uncertainty about the underlying reasons.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of considering the momentum gained in collisions and the frequency of those collisions in relation to the ball's motion.
  • A later reply notes the complexity of the granular system, suggesting that it only approximates Brownian motion under certain conditions and references a study indicating that dynamics scale with particle diameter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of the proposed demonstration to accurately represent Brownian motion, with some agreeing on the expected qualitative outcomes while others raise concerns about the simulation's realism. There is no consensus on the precise relationship between grain size and ball motion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the nonlinear nature of granular systems and the limitations in approximating Brownian motion, with references to specific scaling laws that may apply.

ddddd28
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Hello,
Einstein evaluated the size of an atom by analysing a brownian motion, assuming the size of the molecules is a a factor. In order to demonstrate this concept, I want to put some powders with different sizes of grains on a vibrator and watch how a ball moves. What is the expected result? The bigger the grains, the slower the ball moves? and why? and how is it settled with einstein's formula to find the atom's size?
 
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The ball will move mainly from the contact to the vibrator I guess, and if you analyze its flight path then inelastic collisions will still make everything different from thermal motion. I don't see how you would get a realistic simulation of Brownian motion that way.
 
I think you didn't understand the simulation. There is no flight, I put the ball gently and watch its motion.
As you can see in that video: Random Force & Brownian Motion - Sixty Symbols

My question is what happens to the ball motion when I change the size of the grains.
 
That is about what I expected, and I'm not sure how much you get from a quantitative analysis. Qualitatively it is fine, of course.
ddddd28 said:
My question is what happens to the ball motion when I change the size of the grains.
What do you expect?
 
I expect that the brownian motion will be shorter (the average distance the ball travels) as the grains become bigger. However, I have no good explanation. I want to show the simulation to demonstrate Einstein's motivation to think that there is a connection between the brownian motion and the size of atom(grain).
 
Think about the momentum the ball gets in each collision, and how frequent collisions are.
 
ddddd28 said:
I expect that the brownian motion will be shorter (the average distance the ball travels) as the grains become bigger. However, I have no good explanation. I want to show the simulation to demonstrate Einstein's motivation to think that there is a connection between the brownian motion and the size of atom(grain).

It's not a simple question to answer- the granular bed is a very nonlinear system and only approximates Brownian motion in a limiting sense.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep17279

If I read that article correctly, the dynamics scale as (particle diameter)^1/8.
 
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