BTU rating of Earth below frost line

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the BTU rating of the Earth below the frost line, specifically regarding heat transfer rates from the Earth to a buried structure, such as a cement tank, under various conditions. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of heat transfer, including the influence of material properties and temperature gradients.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Steve inquires about the BTU transfer capabilities of the Earth below the frost line, seeking specific values per square foot.
  • One participant questions the specifics of the heat transfer scenario, noting that it depends on the temperature gradient and asks for more details about the setup.
  • Steve provides a scenario involving a cement tank buried in the Earth at 55 degrees F, asking about BTU transfer with water at varying temperatures.
  • Another participant suggests that the question has shifted and emphasizes the need for the thermal conductivity of cement to calculate heat transfer, recommending the use of SI units for convenience.
  • Steve proposes using a specific heat transfer equation and expresses uncertainty about applying it to the Earth, questioning whether the Earth can be assumed to transfer heat at the rate of the material in contact with it.
  • A participant responds that if the thermal conductivity of soil is significantly better than that of cement, it could be a valid approximation for heat transfer calculations.
  • Steve reflects on the complexity of determining heat transfer rates due to the variability between different soil types and suggests that the cement wall may act as an insulator, proposing that the maximum transfer ability of the surrounding soil should be considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the factors influencing heat transfer, including the role of material properties and temperature gradients. There is no consensus on a specific BTU transfer rate or method for calculation, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to quantify heat transfer in this context.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific material properties, such as thermal conductivity, and the assumption of constant temperature conditions. The discussion also highlights the variability in soil types and their impact on heat transfer rates.

sday
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Does anyone know how many BTU's the Earth is capable of transferring per minute or hour per square foot of surface area below the frost line?

thanks
-Steve
 
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Transfer from what to what, in which way? In addition, nearly any heat transfer will depend on the temperature gradient.
Do you have some specific setup in mind?
 
Say Earth at 55 degrees F with a rectangular cement tank buried. If The concrete if 4" thick and you put 45 degree water or 65 degree water (10 degree difference + or -), how many BTU of transfer would occur per square foot? Is that enough info?
 
Last edited:
That looks like a completely different question.
Yes, you can calculate it (assuming the outside remains at constant temperature), if you know the thermal conductivity of cement. It should be straight forward how to do it (just multiply everything together). If you need help there please use SI units, they are much more convenient in physics.
 
Can I just use H = (A(Th-Tc))/R?

I tried approaching it the same way I calculated two containers full of water separated by a copper barrier using the above formula, but I don't understand how to apply it to Earth. For a relatively small body of water can one just assume Earth is always capable of transferring at the lesser of the material in contact with soil? I have found coefficients for dry and wet soil.

Can I just assume if deep enough, the temperature of the soil will remain stable and just dutifully transfer heat at a given rate?
 
If the thermal conductivity of soil is significantly better (compared to cement), this should be a good approximation.

For a cylinder of infinite length or a half-sphere, it is possible to take the soil into account in an analytical way. For finite cylinders, a numerical approach or some approximation might help.
 
Well after looking at this, it seems like it will be difficult to determine what the transfer will be because the difference from dry soil to solid rock is a huge variable. A 4" cement wall around the container seems as if it will actually act as some what of an insulator unless it is any but dry sand. Some type of a Poly container would allow for much more transfer.

So my current thinking is that the BTU transfer of heat from/to Earth is whatever the maximum transfer ability is of the soil you are in, which has a k value of 0.15 - 7.0. I think I'm on the right track to figuring this out.

Thanks for the feedback.
-Steve
 

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