Build a RTG: Cheap & Reliable Wattage from Homemade Parts

[Lord Flasheart]

Hello, my nuclear comrades.

I am in a bit of a project rut. You see, I have been looking for cheap, reliable methods of producing wattage with homemade parts, and the Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator caught my eye. Are there schematics on said generator out there on the semi-murky depths of the internet? If so, either post a link to the site(s), or tell me info of what you know about the RTGs themselves. Multi-thanks.

 

[russ_watters]

Uh, though the concept is pretty simple, the fuel is Pu238, which is one of the more expensive and difficult to obtain substances on earth.

What exactly are you trying to do here? In any case, a google search will give you all kinds of good info.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Well, so much for that. I doubt I could actually find Plutonium 238 in a precise amount to generate electricity, anyhow. Thanks for the saved-me-of-the-trouble-of-finding-Plutonium-help.

 

[enigma]

I think there are some which use Thorium as well.

IIRC, Thorium can be found in your typical smoke detecter (I think it was Thorium, anyways). Unfortunately, not in the quantity you'd need for a generator.

After you spent more money than you'd like (certainly more than just going through PEPCO, I'd wager), you'll have to answer to the Gub'ment as to why you've collected so much 'dirty-bomb' material in your house. Not a viable alternative, I'd guess.

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Thank you, over-lord of the forums.

I believe, to answer my quest's question, there is radium in clocks and watches. Perhaps I could scrape the material off or something.

Cheers, my Vulcan friends.

 

[russ_watters]

You could scrape off the faces of millions of watches or buy a handful of lithium ion batteries...

 

[Arctic Fox]

Now, there has to be some way of building a working RTG without having to go through all the government restrictions...

Anyone here have ideas on how?

*this is a worldwide question (can't do it in the US, but might be able to do it in Antarctica)* ;)

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Well, you/I can either run a watch company, a nuclear power plant, or a particle accelerator. All these methods would require loads of money, which is a bummer for broke scientists.

However, I have heard of radioisotopes in the mid-western North American mountains. Perhaps you/I could privately make one using the small amounts in the mounts for the homemade RTGs.

Project Prometheus is reducing the restrictions of nuclear devices in space, so there might still be a chance for ORION, NERVA, and other such etheric-nuke projects.

 

[hitssquad]

Tritium power (was RTG Plans needed)

Originally posted by Lord Flasheart
I have been looking for cheap, reliable methods of producing wattage with homemade parts, and the Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator caught my eye. Are there schematics on said generator out there on the semi-murky depths of the internet? If so, either post a link to the site(s), or tell me info of what you know about the RTGs themselves. Multi-thanks.

The easiest and safest way to do this would be to use photocells instead of peltier junctions and feed them light with tritium-charged light tubes. The latter items are used inside iso-luminous exit signs. Just take the sign apart and there are your permanently-glowing tubes.

You can purchase your tritium-charged exit signs here:
http://www.specialty-lights.com/tritiumexit.html



-Chris

 

[Nice coder]

<not exactly RTG but..>
Americium is in smoke detectors
Americium generates alpha particles
Alpha particles ionise air
This is how smoke detectors work
You can use the ionised air to generate electricity (magnets anyone?)
</not exectly RTG but..>
Nice coder (i do more then just programing)

 

[Arctic Fox]

What would produce more heat, Tritium or Americium?

 

[Nice coder]

Trimium, but americium produces more ions and lasts longer

 

[Arctic Fox]

I'm guessing that it would be a lot easier to acquire Americium?

Anyone know how hot a RTG needs to get in order to work?

 

[russ_watters]

I'm guessing that it would be a lot easier to acquire Americium?

Define "easier"? Both are impossible (and tritium anyway would be illegal) for a civilian to acquire in a useful quantity. I heard once that tritium is the most expensive substance on Earth (not sure if that includes anti-matter or not).

 

[Arctic Fox]

Well, Americum can be pulled out of smoke detectors, and I believe that tritium is found in a glow-in-the-dark keychain outside the US. Now that I'm thinking about it, it would be more trouble that it's worth, but still possible to find.

I have seen a place in the US that sells Cadmium109, Barium133, Cobalt57, Manganese54, Sodium22, Zinc65 - as "radiation sources", I've no idea on what quantities would be needed for a RTG, or if these would even work in place of Plutonium/etc.

Again, I don't know how temperature-hot it needs to be in order to work - I could guess a lit cigarette or a burning lump of magnesium, but could also be way off.

**I just found this link:
http://www.ans.neep.wisc.edu/~ans/point_source/AEI/sep96/materials.html

 

[Simon666]

Hello, my nuclear comrades.

I am in a bit of a project rut. You see, I have been looking for cheap, reliable methods of producing wattage with homemade parts, and the Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator caught my eye. Are there schematics on said generator out there on the semi-murky depths of the internet? If so, either post a link to the site(s), or tell me info of what you know about the RTGs themselves. Multi-thanks.

Just wait for a Russian satellite with an onboard RTG to crash near you.

 

[hitssquad]

Tritium power sources - legal or illegal

Both are impossible (and tritium anyway would be illegal) for a civilian to acquire in a useful quantity.

It is illegal for civilians to buy these glowing, tritium-filled signs, from which wattage can be produced with the aid of photoelectric cells?

 

[russ_watters]

It is illegal for civilians to buy these glowing, tritium-filled signs, from which wattage can be produced with the aid of photoelectric cells?

Is that a question or a statement? I didn't see anything on the site suggesting it was illegal for a civilian to own them, but in any case, if you wanted to use them as a source of tritium for a nuclear device, you'd need millions of signs.

 

[hitssquad]

How many isoluminous signs does it take to build an RPG

impossible (and tritium ... would be illegal) for a civilian to acquire in a useful quantity.

It is illegal for civilians to buy these glowing, tritium-filled signs, from which wattage can be produced with the aid of photoelectric cells?

I didn't see anything on the site suggesting it was illegal for a civilian to own them, but ... if you wanted to use them as a source of tritium for a nuclear device, you'd need millions of signs.

It seems that for an RPG (Radioisotope Photoelectric Generator), one would not need more than one sign (or even more than one isoluminous tube from one sign). How did you come up with the figure of millions?

 

[Arctic Fox]

He’s probably thinking of how many would be needed to produce enough light to bring up any useful amount of wattage... :)

 

[russ_watters]

It seems that for an RPG (Radioisotope Photoelectric Generator), one would not need more than one sign (or even more than one isoluminous tube from one sign). How did you come up with the figure of millions?

How do you come up with the figure of one?

Ok, maybe millions is an exaggeration (it wasn't an exaggeration for the watches). In any case, I'd be surprised if the output of those signs is more than a couple of tenths of a watt. So, using an example from Artic Fox's link (50w at 6-8% efficiency), .2w/sign is about 3,000 signs.

 

[russ_watters]

Lets see if I can figure this one out (my nuclear physics is a little rusty):

From the link, each sign has 9.85 curies of tritium. A curie is 37 billion decays per second, so that's 364.5 billion decays/sec. At a decay energy of 18.6 keV/decay, that's 6780 billion keV/sec. 1eV is 1.6e-19 J, so that's .0012 J/s or .0012w.

Someone check me...

 

[Arctic Fox]

Looks/Sounds correct to me.
Damn NRC! Never let's us play with anything fun. :D

 

[Yggdrasil]

That space shuttle that passed Saturn has three RTGs in it. Ask someone from NASA.

 

[earthcruzer]

Plutonium-238, curium-244 and strontium-90 are the most often cited candidate isotopes, but other isotopes such as polonium-210, promethium-147, caesium-137, cerium-144, ruthenium-106, cobalt-60, curium-242 and thulium

can all be used
most of these isotopes can be bought at http://unitednuclear.com/isotopes.htm

 

[theCandyman]

I heard once that tritium is the most expensive substance on Earth (not sure if that includes anti-matter or not).

It was very expensive at one time, over one trillion dolloars for one gram from what I have read. After the Savannah River plant started producing it, the price dropped.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

Well, you/I can either run a watch company, a nuclear power plant, or a particle accelerator. All these methods would require loads of money, which is a bummer for broke scientists.

However, I have heard of radioisotopes in the mid-western North American mountains. Perhaps you/I could privately make one using the small amounts in the mounts for the homemade RTGs.

i suspect that if you were to actually pursue this, you will wind up in jail.

and given that this is an internet forum undoubtably "watched", you would probably deserve it for your foolishness anyway (no offense).

 

[Lord Flasheart]

Pursue it? Hah! I'd need to have access to nuclear facilities, not to mention ludicrous amounts of money. I started this topic more than a year ago, in a time when I was naive and didn't understand how complicated such a device was. I'm surprised this topic is still going strong, despite my long faltered interest in RTGs.

Like Russ said, I'd need millions of those photo-electric signs just to get any decent wattage, and even then it'd be so impractical that it wouldn't be worth clobbering them together in the first place. As you both mentioned, it would not be in my best interest to have that much tritium.

I gave up this endeavor long ago, not only due to my lack of expertise in radioactivity, but the dangers involved. I have no intention of ending up like that Radioactive Boy Scout, no sir-eee.

quetzalcoatl9, I take no offense! I was obviously being a bit of a nitwit for seeking out radioactive isotopes anyway. Maturity has cured me, thankfully.

 

[quetzalcoatl9]

lord flash,

i'm glad to hear that

if this kind of stuff does still interest you, I'm sure there are research groups at a university near you looking for students/workers. you would then have the proper setting & expertise, and get to do this kind of research at no cost to you.

 

[pervect]

The radioactive boy scout