Calculate grad X E Am I on the right track?

  • Thread starter Thread starter frozenguy
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Grad Track
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the curl of an electric field, specifically \(\vec \nabla \times \vec E\), in the context of electromagnetic theory. Participants explore the implications of the electric field being conservative due to a point charge at rest.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to verify their calculations, expressing uncertainty about arriving at a result of zero for the curl. Some participants clarify the relationship between conservative fields and the curl, while others question the nature of the del operator and its application in this context.

Discussion Status

Participants have provided clarifications regarding the properties of conservative fields and the del operator. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of these concepts, with no explicit consensus reached on the original poster's calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the definitions and operations associated with the del operator, including gradient, divergence, and curl, while considering the specific case of a static electric field generated by a point charge.

frozenguy
Messages
186
Reaction score
0

I only did the first two (out of three) crosses because I want to check that I'm on the right track. It doesn't seem like I am because I have come up with 0i, 0j and I pretty much know I will come up with 0k
physics230ch253.jpg
 
Physics news on Phys.org
On a side note, [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E[/tex] is read "del cross E", or "rotor of E/curl of E." The Greek letter Nabla in this context is usually called "the del operator."

The gradient of a scalar function, [tex]\phi[/tex] is denoted by [tex]grad \phi[/tex] or [tex]\nabla \phi[/tex], and is just one use for the del operator.

The divergence of a vector function, let's take [tex]E[/tex] for now, is denoted by: [tex]div \vec E[/tex] or [tex]\vec \nabla \cdot \vec E[/tex]

Now that that's out of the way, 0 makes sense. The curl of a conservative field is 0! The electric field you've described here, is that of a point charge q at rest. Such a field is conservative, and thus, we should expect [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=0[/tex], which you have demonstrated exactly. :)

If you've already learned Maxwell's Equations in their differential form, then you should know that [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=-\frac{\partial\vec B}{\partial t}[/tex] and since in this case you're dealing with a single point charge at rest, there's no time variation of the magnetic field anywhere, again you should expect [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=0[/tex]
 
Last edited:
RoyalCat said:
On a side note, [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E[/tex] is read "del cross E", or "rotor of E/curl of E." The Greek letter Nabla in this context is usually called "the del operator."

The gradient of a scalar function, [tex]\phi[/tex] is denoted by [tex]grad \phi[/tex] or [tex]\nabla \phi[/tex], and is just one use for the del operator.

The divergence of a vector function, let's take [tex]E[/tex] for now, is denoted by: [tex]div \vec E[/tex] or [tex]\vec \nabla \cdot \vec E[/tex]

Now that that's out of the way, 0 makes sense. The curl of a conservative field is 0! The electric field you've described here, is that of a point charge q at rest. Such a field is conservative, and thus, we should expect [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=0[/tex], which you have demonstrated exactly. :)

If you've already learned Maxwell's Equations in their differential form, then you should know that [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=-\frac{\partial\vec B}{\partial t}[/tex] and since in this case you're dealing with a single point charge at rest, there's no time variation of the magnetic field anywhere, again you should expect [tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=0[/tex]

Hey thanks!
Hmm ok so it should equal 0 because the particle is at rest, so the field is conservative? What is the del operator? As in what is it exactly am I crossing with E besides partial derivatives.
 
frozenguy said:
Hey thanks!
Hmm ok so it should equal 0 because the particle is at rest, so the field is conservative? What is the del operator? As in what is it exactly am I crossing with E besides partial derivatives.

It is often useful to consider the del operator, [tex]\nabla[/tex] as a vector whose components are the partial derivative operators:

[tex]\vec \nabla =( \frac{\partial}{\partial x}) \hat x+( \frac{\partial}{\partial y}) \hat y+( \frac{\partial}{\partial z}) \hat z[/tex]

Now we can look at the 3 vector operations carried out using the del operator.

[tex]grad (\phi) = \vec \nabla \phi = ( \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}) \hat x+( \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial y}) \hat y+( \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial z}) \hat z[/tex]

[tex]div (\vec v)=\vec \nabla \cdot \vec v = (\frac{\partial \vec v}{\partial x})\cdot \hat x+(\frac{\partial \vec v}{\partial y})\cdot \hat y+(\frac{\partial \vec v}{\partial z})\cdot \hat z[/tex]
Notice the dot product between the partial derivatives and the unit vectors(!), the divergence of a vector field is a scalar function, and not a vector one.

And as for [tex]curl (\vec v) = \vec \nabla \times \vec v[/tex] I won't write that out since I'm lazy, and you've shown you can use the pseudo-determinant to take the cross product.
What you posted in your solution holds for any two vectors whose cross product you wish to find, just replace the components of the del operator, the partial derivatives, with the components of any other vector.
 
RoyalCat said:
It is often useful to consider the del operator, [tex]\nabla[/tex] as a vector whose components are the partial derivative operators:

[tex]\vec \nabla =( \frac{\partial}{\partial x}) \hat x+( \frac{\partial}{\partial y}) \hat y+( \frac{\partial}{\partial z}) \hat z[/tex]

Now we can look at the 3 vector operations carried out using the del operator.

[tex]grad (\phi) = \vec \nabla \phi = ( \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial x}) \hat x+( \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial y}) \hat y+( \frac{\partial \phi}{\partial z}) \hat z[/tex]

[tex]div (\vec v)=\vec \nabla \cdot \vec v = (\frac{\partial \vec v}{\partial x})\cdot \hat x+(\frac{\partial \vec v}{\partial y})\cdot \hat y+(\frac{\partial \vec v}{\partial z})\cdot \hat z[/tex]
Notice the dot product between the partial derivatives and the unit vectors(!), the divergence of a vector field is a scalar function, and not a vector one.

And as for [tex]curl (\vec v) = \vec \nabla \times \vec v[/tex] I won't write that out since I'm lazy, and you've shown you can use the pseudo-determinant to take the cross product.
What you posted in your solution holds for any two vectors whose cross product you wish to find, just replace the components of the del operator, the partial derivatives, with the components of any other vector.

Thank you so much! Really cleared a lot up.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
954
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
11K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
16K
Replies
2
Views
1K