Calculating Electromagnetic Force between Two Magnets for Disc Holding

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the electromagnetic force exerted between two electromagnets, specifically in the context of holding two metallic discs together. Participants explore the complexity of the calculations involved and the factors that influence the force, including current and setup details.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand the force exerted by electromagnets based on current and asks for hints or examples.
  • Another participant notes that the calculations are complicated and depend on many details of the setup.
  • A participant reiterates the complexity and suggests that a detailed 3D model and various material constants are necessary for accurate calculations.
  • There is a suggestion that measuring the force directly may be easier than calculating it theoretically.
  • One participant proposes building a small model to take measurements and then scaling up, while also mentioning the importance of considering heating effects at high currents.
  • Another participant suggests using powerful permanent magnets in conjunction with electromagnets for practical applications, highlighting potential issues with mechanical jarring of permanent magnets.
  • There is a question about whether the inquiry is a thought experiment or related to a real-world problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the calculations are complex and context-dependent, with no consensus on a straightforward method or solution. Multiple competing views on approaches and practical considerations remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for specific details about the setup, including material constants and geometric configurations, which are not provided. There is also an acknowledgment of the limitations of online calculators for this type of problem.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in electromagnetism, engineering applications involving magnetic forces, and those looking to understand the complexities of electromagnetic calculations may find this discussion relevant.

physior
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hello

I want to calculate the force exerted between two electromagnets, based on their current

I want to hold two metallic discs together, how much force can I exert between them with electromagnetism?

is this something simple?

any hint?

thanks!
 
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Those calculations are complicated, and the result will depend on many details of the setup.
 
mfb said:
Those calculations are complicated, and the result will depend on many details of the setup.
can you give me an example at least?
for example electrical current 1kAmpere is required to exert a force of 1kNewton
isn't there an online calculator, simulator to play with?
 
Last edited:
physior said:
for example electrical current 1kAmpere is required to exert a force of 1kNewton
If it would be that easy it would not be complicated. You'll need a detailed 3D model of your setup, various material constants, probably numerical simulations in two or three dimensions and so on.
There is no way to even make a rough approximation without knowing how your setup looks like, and that's not something you can feed into an online tool in general.

It can be easier to just measure it.
 
physior said:
can you give me an example at least?
for example electrical current 1kAmpere is required to exert a force of 1kNewton
isn't there an online calculator, simulator to play with?
Build a small model, take measurements, then scale it up. If it will involve large currents for long durations, then heating of the electromagnet is going to be a major factor.

An alternative might be to use powerful permanent magnets to hold things together long term, with an electromagnet to briefly oppose the field of the Neodymium Magnets so the discs can be swapped in/out. Try to avoid mechanically jarring permanent magnets, that can eventually weaken them, I believe. It might be feasible to slowly power down the electromagnet so that it cushions any slamming together of the neodymiums. :)

Is this along the lines of a thought experiment, or do you have a real-world problem to solve?
 

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