Calculating Enthalpy for H3O: Investigating the Dissolution of Ammonium Nitrate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the enthalpy for the hydronium ion (H3O+) and its role in the dissolution of ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3). Participants explore the standard enthalpy of formation, the reactions involved, and the interpretation of enthalpy changes in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks the standard enthalpy of formation for H3O+, expressing difficulty in finding it in literature.
  • Another participant clarifies that enthalpy typically refers to the standard enthalpy of formation and emphasizes that only changes in enthalpy can be measured.
  • A participant confirms they are looking for the standard enthalpy of formation and describes the reaction involving NH4+ in water to form NH3 and H3O+.
  • One response suggests that the standard enthalpy of formation for H3O+ is conventionally set to zero, indicating a potential misunderstanding of this convention.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding how to demonstrate both positive and negative ΔH values for the dissolution of ammonium nitrate, providing specific reactions and their associated ΔH values.
  • Another participant challenges the clarity of the problem statement, requesting an exact copy to better understand the confusion regarding the enthalpy changes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of enthalpy changes in the dissolution process and the role of water in the reactions. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on how to approach the problem.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of the problem statement and the assumptions regarding the enthalpy of formation for H3O+. The discussion also highlights potential misunderstandings about the role of water in the reactions and the nature of enthalpy changes.

Jeann25
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I need to find the enthalpy for H3O. I can't find it in my table in my book, and I'm not having much luck finding it online. Is there one for this molecule? :confused:
 
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What do you mean by enthalpy? Do you mean the standard enthalpy of formation?

Remember that we can only measure the change in enthalpy of a system.
 
I do mean the standard enthalpy of formation..
The reaction is NH4+ in water to form NH3 + H3O+

I can find NH4 and NH3, but not H3O
 
This is a "trick" question: the "trick" being that your text source has to inform you that ΔHf(H3O+) is "Zero" by convention, your instructor has to point this out, and you have to notice the special case.
 
I'm really confused then. I'm supposed to show how there is a positive ΔH and a negative ΔH for the dissolution of ammonium nitrate. I did:

NH4NO3 --> NH4+ + NO3-
This is a ΔH of 28.1 kJ

I thought maybe the negative ΔH was the Qh2o of the surrounding, but he said no, that the water does participate in the reaction. So I tried protonation..

NH4+ + H2O --> NH3 + H3O+
The ΔH is 372.2

I'm not understanding how to show a negative ΔH here...
 
Jeann25 said:
(snip) I'm supposed to show how there is a positive ΔH and a negative ΔH for the dissolution of ammonium nitrate. (snip)

This statement makes absolutely NO sense: please give us an exact copy of the problem statement.
 

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