Calculating entropy change associated with change in temperature

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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around calculating the change in entropy associated with a temperature change for one mole of liquid bromine heated from 30 ºC to 50 ºC at constant pressure. Participants explore the correct application of thermodynamic equations and the implications of temperature variation on entropy calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a calculation for entropy change using a constant temperature of 298.15 K, expressing confusion about its appropriateness given the temperature change.
  • Another participant challenges this approach, stating that since temperature is not constant, the correct method involves integrating over temperature to calculate ΔS.
  • A subsequent reply confirms the need for integration and provides the integral form of the entropy change, indicating that the initial calculation may have been coincidentally close to the correct answer.
  • Further discussion includes a participant attempting to clarify their integration approach and confirming their calculations, while another participant acknowledges the correctness of the method but does not verify the arithmetic.
  • There is a correction regarding a typographical error in notation, clarifying that 'dt' should be 'dT'.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial calculation method. There is disagreement on the appropriateness of using a constant temperature for the entropy calculation, with some advocating for integration over temperature as the correct approach.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of understanding the conditions under which thermodynamic equations apply, particularly regarding temperature variation during processes.

Ryaners
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Hi folks,
This is a question about how to calculate entropy change when there is a temperature change involved. I got the correct answer to this, but I don't actually understand why it's correct..!
Any help is much appreciated.

Homework Statement


One mole of liquid bromine is heated from 30 ºC to 50 ºC at constant pressure. Calculate the change in entropy (in kJ⋅K-1) associated to the process:

Br2 (liq, 30 ºC) → Br2 (liq, 50 ºC)

knowing that the heat capacity of Br2 at constant pressure in the range 30-50 ºC is 75 kJ⋅mol-1⋅K-1.

Homework Equations


q = m⋅C⋅ΔT
ΔS = qrev / T (for a reversible process)

The Attempt at a Solution


First I calculated q:
(1 mol)(75 kJ⋅mol-1⋅K-1)(20°K) = 1500 kJ
Then I used the ΔS equation above, with T = 298.15 K:
ΔS = 1500 kJ / 298.15 K = 5 kJ⋅K-1

The thing is, this is the correct answer, but I have no idea why you should know to use 298.15 K as the temperature. It's not given in the question, and I would have thought that the above equation for ΔS could only be used in cases where the temperature remains constant, not like in this example where it increases by 20°.

Can anyone explain why?
 
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Ryaners said:
ΔS = 1500 kJ / 298.15 K = 5 kJ⋅K-1

The thing is, this is the correct answer, but I have no idea why you should know to use 298.15 K as the temperature.
That's not the right answer. It might be numerically close to the actual answer, but that's serendipitous.

Since T is not a constant, you have to calculate ΔS by integrating over T:
$$
\Delta S = \int_{T_i}^{T_f} \frac{m C}{T} dT
$$
 
Last edited:
DrClaude said:
That's not the right answer. It might be numerically close to the actual answer, but that's serendipitous.

Since T is not a constant, you have to calculate ΔS by integrating over T:
$$
\Delta S = \int_{T_i}^{T_f} \frac{m C}{T} dt
$$

Ok, I figured there was something fishy going on. I'll try the integration approach - there was another similar question that I also got the right answer for, but I guess they were both right by chance!

Thanks for your help :)
 
DrClaude said:
That's not the right answer. It might be numerically close to the actual answer, but that's serendipitous.

Since T is not a constant, you have to calculate ΔS by integrating over T:
$$
\Delta S = \int_{T_i}^{T_f} \frac{m C}{T} dt
$$

I take it by 'dt' you mean 'dT'?
I'm doing my best to get all of the thermodynamics we covered in Chemistry last semester clear in my head before we start it in Physics this semester. Would you mind casting an eye over this? I do get the same (correct) answer when rounded to 1 sig. figure but I'd like to be sure I'm doing this right:

(I've screwed up the formatting here a bit, sorry!)

$$
\Delta S = \int_{T_i}^{T_f} \frac{m C}{T} dT
$$
$$
= mC \int_{T_i}^{T_f} \frac{1}{T} dT
$$
= m⋅C⋅(ln Tf - ln Ti)
= (1 mol)(75 kJ⋅mol-1⋅K-1)(ln 323.15 K - ln 303.15 K)
= 4.79 kJ⋅K-1
 
I haven't checked your arithmetic, but your approach is correct. Incidentally, ln(323.15)-ln(303.15)=ln(323.15/303.15). This will help you reduce roundoff error.
 
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Chestermiller said:
I haven't checked your arithmetic, but your approach is correct. Incidentally, ln(323.15)-ln(303.15)=ln(323.15/303.15). This will help you reduce roundoff error.

Thanks Chester, I realized that just after posting - I think I have some revision to do re: logs, too...
 
Ryaners said:
I take it by 'dt' you mean 'dT'?
Yes, that was a typo.
 
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