Calculating Heat Gained by Supercooled Water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the heat gained by supercooled water when a portion of it freezes into ice. Participants explore the concepts of heat transfer, specifically the heat of fusion, and the implications of an insulated system on energy changes. The conversation includes mathematical reasoning and assumptions regarding the final state of the system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the heat lost by the mass converted to ice will be gained by the remaining water, but seeks clarification on how to calculate the heat gained.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of heat of fusion, indicating that the freezing ice releases heat that warms the remaining water.
  • Several participants assert that the system is insulated, leading to a zero change in internal energy from the initial to final state, and question the final temperature of the mixture.
  • A participant expresses doubt about their calculation, which assumes the final temperature is 0 degrees Celsius, leading to a ratio of mass as 1/9.
  • Others request clarification on the calculation of 1/9, suggesting that the heat of fusion may not have been adequately considered.
  • Participants provide a breakdown of the initial and final states of the system, including calculations of internal energy based on different reference states.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the calculation of heat gained or the final temperature of the system. Multiple competing views and uncertainties regarding the assumptions and calculations remain evident throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the final temperature of the mixture and the treatment of heat of fusion in the calculations. The discussion reflects differing approaches to establishing the internal energy states of the system.

gianeshwar
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My argument is that heat lost by lump of mass converted to ice will be gained by remaining water. But how do I find heat gained ?
 
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Are you familiar with the concept of heat of fusion? The freezing ice gives up its heat of fusion, which will warm the remaining water. The heat of fusion of water is given in the link.
 
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The system is assumed to be insulated so that the change in internal energy from the initial state to the final state must be zero. Plus, the problem statement strongly implies that there will be both ice and liquid water present in the final state. What temperature do you think that mixture would be at?
 
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Chestermiller said:
The system is assumed to be insulated so that the change in internal energy from the initial state to the final state must be zero. Plus, the problem statement strongly implies that there will be both ice and liquid water present in the final state. What temperature do you think that mixture would be at?
This temperature cannot be found here. If I assume this temperature 0 degree,I get answer as 1/9 .But,I am doubtful.
 
How did you arrive at 1/9? Please show us your work. I think that you did not take into account the heat of fusion of water.
 
phyzguy said:
How did you arrive at 1/9? Please show us your work. I think that you did not take into account the heat of fusion of water.
Let M is original supercooled water and m is mass of lump formed.
Heat lost 80 m
Heat gained(M-m)(0-(-10))
So m/M=1/9
 
gianeshwar said:
Let M is original supercooled water and m is mass of lump formed.
Heat lost 80 m
Heat gained(M-m)(0-(-10))
So m/M=1/9
The part that became ice also increased in temperature from -10 to zero.
 
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The initial and final states of the system are:

Initial: M grams of liquid water at -10 C
Final: m grams of ice and (M-m) grams of liquid water at 0 C

If we take as the reference state for zero internal energy, liquid water at 0 C, then the internal energies of the initial and final states are:

Initial: ##U=M(-10-0)=-10 M\ calories##
Final: ##U=-80 m+(M-m)(0-0)=-80m\ calories##

So, $$-80m=-10M$$

This, of course, can also be done by taking as the reference state for zero internal energy, liquid water at -10 C. In this case,

Initial: ##U=M(-10-(-10))=0\ calories##
Final: ##U=m(0-(-10))-80m+(M-m)(0-(-10))=-80m+10M\ calories##

So,$$-80m+10M=0$$
 

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