Calculating Joules to Compress Air: Dan's Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the energy required to compress air in a tank to a specified pressure. Participants explore the theoretical framework and mathematical approaches involved in determining the energy in joules needed for this compression, considering different volumes and pressures of air.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Dan poses a question about the energy required to compress air in a 4-gallon tank to 300 kPa, initially seeking help with the calculations.
  • One participant suggests calculating the work done by the tank when venting gas, proposing an integration approach using the ideal gas law.
  • Another participant provides a numerical estimate of 5520.035 Joules needed to compress air in the tank to 300 kPa, assuming atmospheric pressure is 100 kPa.
  • A later reply questions the assumptions made about the volume of gas after expansion, suggesting that the volume should be 16 gallons instead of 12 gallons when considering absolute pressure values.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the calculations and assumptions regarding the volume of gas and the energy required for compression. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the correct approach and results.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about atmospheric pressure and the specific conditions of the gas. The integration approach and the numerical estimates provided are not fully resolved, and the implications of absolute versus gauge pressure are not clarified.

Dalau
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So here I am at work, and the go-to people for physics are away. Here is the problem I am trying to figure out:

I'm wondering how much energy it takes to compress a certain amount of
air at a certain temperature, to a certain pressure. For example, let's
say I had a 4-gallon tank of STP air and I wanted to add air until the
pressure inside the tank reached 300 kPa. How much energy, in joules,
would it require to do this?
-Danedit: nevermind this thread. Zz gave me a bit of help. If you want, you can still give me some help, but for now, I should be fine, unless I post here again requesting help.
 
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You just do it the opposite way : calculate how much work the tank releases when it vents the gas out.

We have P=nRT/V, so you integrate the function nRT/V dV with 4 galon and 12 galon as the endpoints of the interval. 12 galon is the volume the compressed gas expand when it is released.
I am sorry not to have the numerical results for you.
 
In this case, consider the atmosphere equals to 100kPa, then the energy needed to compress air into a 4 gallon tank to 300kPa is 5520.035 Joules.
 
I ve got a question:

The gas is compressed to 300kPa with the volume of 1 gallon. At ambient condition, the pressure is 100kPa, and the absolute value of 300kPa must be 400kPa, so that the volume of gas will be 16 gallons, not just 12 gallons after being expanded to ambient pressure.
I am right?
 

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