Calculating the coefficient of friction of a car going down a ramp

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics lab experiment designed to measure the coefficient of friction of a hot wheels car rolling down a ramp at various angles. Participants explore the unexpected outcome of negative coefficients of friction and the implications of using rolling objects in the experiment.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant reports that their recorded times at different angles yield negative coefficients of friction, prompting a request for help.
  • Another participant points out that the predicted acceleration without friction is less than the measured acceleration, suggesting a fundamental issue with the experiment's setup.
  • A different participant raises the concept of "rolling without slipping," questioning whether friction is opposing the motion and suggesting that the experiment may not be suitable for measuring kinetic friction coefficients.
  • There is a clarification request regarding whether the specified angle is relative to the horizontal or vertical.
  • One participant suggests that for rolling objects, the acceleration is approximately g times tan(theta), indicating that the current setup may not effectively measure kinetic friction and proposing alternatives such as using sliding objects instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the appropriateness of the experimental setup for measuring the coefficient of friction, with no consensus on how to resolve the issues raised.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in the experiment related to the nature of rolling versus sliding friction and the definitions of angles used in calculations, which remain unresolved.

rhufeo
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I designed this lab for my physics class where we roll a hot wheels car down a length of wood that measured 1 m long. we did this process three times at varying angles and we want to investigate how changing the angle affects the coefficient of friction. The problem is, the times that we recorded end up giving us negative coefficients of friction! Whats our problem?!

For example. we recorded that at 20 degrees, the car took 0.75 seconds to travel the 1 m of wood. Using the calculations we get this:

1 m = 1/2(acceleration)(0.75 seconds)^2
a = 3.56 m/s^2

coefficient of friction = (((9.8 m/s^2)(sin20))-3.56 m/s^2) / ((9.8)(cos 20))
coefficient of friction = -0.0226


help please!
 
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Well, we have a problem here. The predicted acceleration in the absence of friction is indeed 9.8sin20 = 3.35 m/s^2, which is LESS than the empirically obtained acceleration which occurred in the presence of friction.
 
So how should i fix this? The lab is supposed to investigate the properties of friction.
 
I could be way off here, because it's been a while since I looked at "rolling without slipping", but that's probably what's occurring here (look it up). So, maybe you really need to re-evaluate your experiment. Is friction even opposing the motion of the cars? I would say no, because two surfaces are NOT sliding relative to each other. On the contrary, there is enough friction to prevent any sliding between the wheels and the ramp (hence "without slipping" -- the wheels maintain traction). Instead, at every instant, the wheel "pivots" around the point on its circumference that can be can be considered to be in contact with the ramp, and that propels it forward. So there is in fact a forward pointing friction force in this situation. I hope somebody else who has a better handle on rolling without slipping can comment and explain the situation more clearly. If what I'm thinking is true, then using rolling cars is not a good choice for an experiment that's designed to use sliding objects on a ramp to calculate coefficients of friction.
 
Which angle are you specifying- relative to the horizontal or the vertical?
 
rhufeo said:
So how should i fix this? The lab is supposed to investigate the properties of friction.

For rolling objects downhill, the acceleration works out to be ~ g times tan theta (for small angles). For an angle of 20 degres that will be 9.8 x .36397 = 3.56 which is exactly what you recorded. As cepheid has already pointed out, the setup you are using is not very useful for measuring coefficients of kinetic friction. What you might do is change the name of your project, and demonstrate rolling acceleration, or you might consider using some sort of ski-like object to slide down the incline.
 

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