Car acceleration on concrete and on asphalt

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the comparison of car acceleration on asphalt versus concrete, specifically examining the role of static friction between rubber tires and these surfaces. Participants explore the implications of friction coefficients, the physical properties of the surfaces, and the mechanics of how cars accelerate.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the coefficient of static friction of rubber tires on asphalt is greater than on concrete, suggesting this could lead to greater maximal acceleration on asphalt.
  • Others argue that while friction is important, it may not be the limiting factor for acceleration, as engine power and torque could play a more significant role.
  • A participant questions the assumption that asphalt deforms more than concrete, suggesting that the roughness of the surfaces may be more relevant than deflection.
  • Another participant contends that asphalt can indeed deform more than concrete, citing practical observations from urban environments.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of friction, with some participants emphasizing its role as a necessary force for movement rather than a hindrance.
  • A humorous interjection introduces a parallel question about the forces involved in rowing, indicating a broader contemplation of driving forces in different contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between friction and acceleration, with no consensus reached on whether asphalt or concrete provides superior acceleration for cars. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of surface deformation and the role of engine dynamics.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the actual coefficients of friction can vary based on numerous factors, and the discussion highlights the complexity of the topic without reaching definitive conclusions.

ChessEnthusiast
Messages
115
Reaction score
3
Today I've come across the statement that the coefficient of static friction of rubber tires on asphalt is bigger than that of tires on concrete. Does it mean that the maximal acceleration a car can attain on asphalt will be greater than that on concrete?

My assumptions: 1)The force of friction is the force that "drives" the car forward
2) Asphalt gets deflected under the wheels more than concrete does
 
Physics news on Phys.org
ChessEnthusiast said:
Does it mean that the maximal acceleration a car can attain on asphalt will be greater than that on concrete?
Yes.
ChessEnthusiast said:
The force of friction is the force that "drives" the car forward
No. But it prevents the wheels from useless spinning
ChessEnthusiast said:
Asphalt gets deflected under the wheels more than concrete does
Don't think so, not that it matters.It's probably just a bit rougher on the proper scale
 
BvU said:
No. But it prevents the wheels from useless spinning

What then is the force that drives the car?
 
ChessEnthusiast said:
What then is the force that drives the car?
The force of friction of asphalt on rubber tires.

The force of friction of rubber tires on asphalt acts on the asphalt. The force of friction of asphalt on rubber tires acts on the tires. Newton's third law in action.

Of course, that frictional force from the asphalt is merely applied to the tires. The force of tires on rims is what moves the rims. The force of rims on lug nuts drives the hubs. The force of hubs on axles drives the axles, etc, etc. And the torque produced by the engine is what allows all of this to persist for more than a millisecond or two.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BvU
ChessEnthusiast said:
Does it mean that the maximal acceleration a car can attain on asphalt will be greater than that on concrete?
Depends on the car its loading. In some cases it might not matter, because traction is not the limiting factor, but rather engine power, torque and transmission.

ChessEnthusiast said:
The force of friction is the force that "drives" the car forward
Statements involving scare quotes are always "true".
 
ChessEnthusiast said:
1)The force of friction is the force that "drives" the car forward
The problem is that people tend to think of Friction as a 'bad' Force that only spoils our lives. That accounts for a lot of confusion. It's just a name and not a value judgement. If we say it's Friction that causes a force then we can allow ourselves to admit it may be actually useful. (After all, without it, we would not be able to stand up!)
 
sophiecentaur said:
After all, without it [friction], we would not be able to stand up!
Stand up, or start walking?
 
ChessEnthusiast said:
static friction of rubber tires on asphalt is bigger than that of tires on concrete.

Might be true with prepared dead smooth road surfaces but in reality the actual coefficients of friction will depend on a multitude of detail factors .
 
ChessEnthusiast said:
... Asphalt gets deflected under the wheels more than concrete does

BvU said:
Don't think so, not that it matters.It's probably just a bit rougher on the proper scale

Actually the asphalt can deform a lot more than concrete. In many cities you will notice the bus stops are concrete while the rest of the street is asphalt. This is done because the bus pulling away from the stop will ripple the asphalt.
 
  • #10
gmax137 said:
Actually the asphalt can deform a lot more than concrete. In many cities you will notice the bus stops are concrete while the rest of the street is asphalt. This is done because the bus pulling away from the stop will ripple the asphalt.
If you are in the road maintenance business, a little bit of deflection multiplied by many bus trips adds up. If you are driving the bus, the deflection of the road is negligible.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: gmax137
  • #11
Let me make this worse :wink:: what force "drives" a rowing boat ?

sculling-boat-2.jpg
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
10K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 163 ·
6
Replies
163
Views
14K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K