Calculating Time Derivatives of Terms with Autonomous Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating time derivatives of terms within an autonomous system, specifically how to express these derivatives in terms of other defined variables. Participants explore various software tools that can assist in performing symbolic differentiation, including MATLAB, Mathematica, and Mathcad.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to derive time derivatives of five terms, each involving functions of time, and wants to express these derivatives as combinations of defined variables (x, y, z, v, w).
  • Another participant notes that MATLAB requires a symbolic toolbox for such calculations, which is an additional cost.
  • It is mentioned that Mathematica includes symbolic math functions by default, while the status of Maple is unclear.
  • A suggestion is made to use Wolfram Alpha for a demonstration of Mathematica's capabilities by typing a simple derivative command.
  • Mathcad is also recommended for its symbolic and numeric differentiation features, with a request for examples of the terms to clarify the discussion.
  • A participant provides specific equations for the terms involved, detailing their dependencies on various functions and constants, and expresses a desire to see how to derive these with respect to time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for symbolic differentiation tools but do not reach a consensus on the best software or method to achieve the desired results. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific commands or approaches to use for the calculations.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for specific software capabilities, the potential costs associated with certain tools, and the lack of clarity on how to express the derivatives in terms of the defined variables.

thecoop
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Hi guys

I have 5 term which each term includes three function of time (autonomous system ), i want to obtain time derivative of each term as other terms for example if i define each term as a dimensionless variable , e.g. x , y , z , v , w , i want to know dx/dt = as a combination of x , y , z , v , w.


In maple or mathematica or MATLAB is there any way to do it ?



thx
 
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in MATLAB it requires the symbolic toolbox (which you have to pay extra for). I'm pretty sure mathematica comes automatically with symbolic math functions. No idea about maple.
 
Mathcad also has symbolic differentiation and can do numeric differentiation if that would be better suited to your purpose.
Can you give an example of a couple of your terms?
 
NemoReally said:
Mathcad also has symbolic differentiation and can do numeric differentiation if that would be better suited to your purpose.
Can you give an example of a couple of your terms?

1=ρ/3 H^2+x1+x2+x3+x4+x5

x1=ρ λ f/6 H^2
x2=-ρ λ f' R/6 H^2
x3=λ f" ρ R`/H
x4=3 λ f' ρ
x5=ρ^2 λ f' / 3 H^2

where H=a`(t) /a(t)

R=6(2H^2+H`)

f(R)

ρ(t)

λ Constant
f' = the first derivative wrt R
f"= the second derivative wrt R
R`=the first derivative wrt t
a`=the first derivative wrt t


I want each term derivation wrt to time expressed as other terms(x1 , x2 , ...) or at least have a Coefficient as R and f ( with its derivations wrt to R ) .
 
Pythagorean said:
try typing this:

(d/dt)t^2

into here:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/

for a taste of mathematica

i don't know with what command i can do this !
 

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