Calculating torque when the lever arm has mass

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SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on calculating the torque exerted by a man standing on a board supported by scaffolding. The board weighs 15 kg, and the man weighs 70 kg. The torque equation used is τ = rFsin(θ), with the force due to gravity represented as F = mg. The solution involves determining the distance the man can stand from the fulcrum before the board tips, concluding that he can stand approximately 0.27 m from the left support, contrary to the book's stated answer of 1.2 m.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of torque and its calculation using τ = rFsin(θ)
  • Knowledge of gravitational force and its representation as F = mg
  • Familiarity with the concept of center of mass in physical systems
  • Basic calculus for integration, though algebraic methods are preferred
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the principles of static equilibrium in physics
  • Learn about the center of mass and its significance in torque calculations
  • Explore algebraic methods for solving torque problems without calculus
  • Review common errors in physics textbooks and how to identify them
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This discussion is beneficial for physics students, educators, and anyone interested in understanding torque calculations and static equilibrium in mechanical systems.

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Homework Statement


A board is set on top of a scaffolding, with dimensions as shown in the diagram. The board weighs 15 kg. A man weighing 70 kg stands on the board as shown. How far out can he stand before the board falls?

96FJw.png


Homework Equations


Torque: \tau = rFsin(\theta)
Force due to gravity: F = mg


The Attempt at a Solution


I decided to use calculus, and then combine with the torque equation for the torque the man applies. I am assuming the leftmost point where the scaffolding touches the board is the fulcrum, and the rightmost point only serves to keep the board from rotating clockwise.

First, since gravity is our only force and it points downwards, we have \tau=rmg.
Now we use calculus:
d\tau=rg\cdot dm, and dm=\frac{15}{5.5}\cdot dr, so
d\tau=\frac{15g}{5.5}r\cdot dr.

Now I assume the first 1.5m of board on each side of the fulcrum cancel out, so the torque on the right of the fulcrum is \tau=\int_{1.5}^{4} \frac{15g}{5.5}r\cdot dr=...=18.75g. I leave the g because I am about to cancel it out.

Now for the lefthand side of my equation, i just need the torque from the man, which will be at a distance of x out, which we must solve for. So
x\cdot 70\cdot g = 18g, and so x\cong 0.27m.

Okay, that's it for my solution. The book says the answer should be 1.2m. I haven't done physics in a while but I have done a lot of math, which is why my solution is overly mathy. I assume there's an easier thing to do here that doesn't require calculus like I did...
 
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Your answer is correct, but try to avoid using calculus when algebra will suffice. The 15 kg mass of the board can be represented by a 15g force acting at the center of mass of the board, that is, acting dead center at 1.25 m from the fulcrum. Thus, 70x = 15(1.25), solve x = .27 m.

I am not sure if you realized that tipping occurs when there is no reaction force at the right support as the board starts to lift off from it.

Looks like the book messed up big time on this one, maybe a calculus error:biggrin:

Wecome to PF!
 
Thank you so much, PhanthomJay! Yeah, wrong answers in a book can really make you question yourself... and yes, center of mass was the magic thing I needed, thanks! One question, what do you mean by:

I am not sure if you realized that tipping occurs when there is no reaction force at the right support as the board starts to lift off from it.

...And thanks again!
 
Supposing the guy walks less than 0.27 m from the left support, say 0.1 m. The system is still in equilibrium, so when you sum moments about the left support equals 0, you will find there must be an upward reaction force at the right support in order to satisfy this equilibrium condition. As the guy moves further away, this reaction force at the right support gets lower and lower, becoming 0
when the guy has moved .27
m. That's the tip point. If he were to continue walking a hair further away, the system could no longer be in equilibrium, since the support reaction at the right can't be less than zero, and the plank would fall over, taking Johnny with it. Unless the plank was nailed down to the support, but it is stated that this is not so.
 

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