Calculating torque when the lever arm has mass

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves calculating the maximum distance a man can stand on a board supported by scaffolding before it tips over. The board has a mass of 15 kg, and the man weighs 70 kg. The discussion centers around the concepts of torque and equilibrium in a physics context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to use calculus to derive the torque applied by the man and the board, while others suggest a more straightforward algebraic approach. Questions arise regarding the tipping point and the role of the reaction force at the supports.

Discussion Status

Participants are exploring different methods to approach the problem, with some providing guidance on simplifying the calculations. There is acknowledgment of potential errors in the book's provided answer, and the discussion remains open with various interpretations being considered.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the center of mass and the conditions for equilibrium, as well as the implications of the board's support structure on the tipping point. There is a focus on understanding the mechanics involved without reaching a definitive conclusion.

threecorners
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


A board is set on top of a scaffolding, with dimensions as shown in the diagram. The board weighs 15 kg. A man weighing 70 kg stands on the board as shown. How far out can he stand before the board falls?

96FJw.png


Homework Equations


Torque: \tau = rFsin(\theta)
Force due to gravity: F = mg


The Attempt at a Solution


I decided to use calculus, and then combine with the torque equation for the torque the man applies. I am assuming the leftmost point where the scaffolding touches the board is the fulcrum, and the rightmost point only serves to keep the board from rotating clockwise.

First, since gravity is our only force and it points downwards, we have \tau=rmg.
Now we use calculus:
d\tau=rg\cdot dm, and dm=\frac{15}{5.5}\cdot dr, so
d\tau=\frac{15g}{5.5}r\cdot dr.

Now I assume the first 1.5m of board on each side of the fulcrum cancel out, so the torque on the right of the fulcrum is \tau=\int_{1.5}^{4} \frac{15g}{5.5}r\cdot dr=...=18.75g. I leave the g because I am about to cancel it out.

Now for the lefthand side of my equation, i just need the torque from the man, which will be at a distance of x out, which we must solve for. So
x\cdot 70\cdot g = 18g, and so x\cong 0.27m.

Okay, that's it for my solution. The book says the answer should be 1.2m. I haven't done physics in a while but I have done a lot of math, which is why my solution is overly mathy. I assume there's an easier thing to do here that doesn't require calculus like I did...
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Your answer is correct, but try to avoid using calculus when algebra will suffice. The 15 kg mass of the board can be represented by a 15g force acting at the center of mass of the board, that is, acting dead center at 1.25 m from the fulcrum. Thus, 70x = 15(1.25), solve x = .27 m.

I am not sure if you realized that tipping occurs when there is no reaction force at the right support as the board starts to lift off from it.

Looks like the book messed up big time on this one, maybe a calculus error:biggrin:

Wecome to PF!
 
Thank you so much, PhanthomJay! Yeah, wrong answers in a book can really make you question yourself... and yes, center of mass was the magic thing I needed, thanks! One question, what do you mean by:

I am not sure if you realized that tipping occurs when there is no reaction force at the right support as the board starts to lift off from it.

...And thanks again!
 
Supposing the guy walks less than 0.27 m from the left support, say 0.1 m. The system is still in equilibrium, so when you sum moments about the left support equals 0, you will find there must be an upward reaction force at the right support in order to satisfy this equilibrium condition. As the guy moves further away, this reaction force at the right support gets lower and lower, becoming 0
when the guy has moved .27
m. That's the tip point. If he were to continue walking a hair further away, the system could no longer be in equilibrium, since the support reaction at the right can't be less than zero, and the plank would fall over, taking Johnny with it. Unless the plank was nailed down to the support, but it is stated that this is not so.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
9K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K