Calculation of neutral Kaon Box Diagrams

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the amplitude for neutral Kaon oscillation, specifically focusing on the Box diagrams involved in the process. Participants explore the implications of these diagrams, the GIM mechanism, and the mathematical intricacies of the calculations, including Feynman parametrization and integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the calculation of the amplitude for neutral Kaon oscillation and notes a potential vanishing amplitude due to the relative sign of the Box diagrams.
  • Another participant mentions that there will be a partial cancellation due to the GIM mechanism, but emphasizes that the cancellation is not complete and advises careful handling of gamma matrix algebra.
  • A participant suggests that the masses in the calculations do not vanish and that the final answer should reflect the GIM mechanism, which only leads to a vanishing term when the masses are equal.
  • One participant seeks guidance on the initial steps for solving an integral that appears in the denominator of the calculations, proposing Feynman parametrization and Wick rotation as potential methods.
  • A later reply summarizes the calculation process and highlights the importance of distinguishing between the two Box diagrams, suggesting that they do not sum to zero due to differences in the quark connections involved.
  • Another participant raises a specific question about deriving a particular expression from a defined function in the context of large mass limits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the calculations and the implications of the GIM mechanism, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the resolution of the initial confusion regarding the vanishing amplitude.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for careful gamma matrix algebra and the potential for different interpretations of the Box diagrams, which may affect the calculations. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the integration techniques and the treatment of masses.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying particle physics, particularly in the context of neutral Kaon oscillations, Feynman diagrams, and the GIM mechanism.

johnpatitucci
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Hi everybody,i'm worried about some calculation. I have to write down the amplitude for the neutral Kaon oscillation. There are two Box diagrams which are depicted here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/9/92/FeynmanKaon.png

The two diagrams come along with a combinatorical factor of 1/2 and they have a relative sign according to the possible contractions.

Now I get for diagram on the left with W-exchange in (\xi =1) gauge up to some constants the following dirac structure (external momenta neglected)

[\bar(s) \gamma_{\mu} (\slashed{k} + m_1) \gamma_{\nu} d] \otimes
[\bar(s) \gamma_{\nu} (\slashed{k} + m_2) \gamma_{\mu} d]

Now, wenn calculating the right diagram, i get basically the same, which together with the relative sign would give a vanishing full amplitude.
Does anybody know, what i am doing wrong ?
 
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Just to fix TeX:
[\bar{(s)} \gamma_{\mu} (\not k + m_1) \gamma_{\nu} d] \otimes<br /> [\bar{(s)} \gamma_{\nu} (\not k + m_2) \gamma_{\mu} d]
 
without looking closely, there IS going to be a partial cancellation. This is called the GIM mechanism. But the cancellation will not be complete. You have to be very careful with gamma matrix algebra, etc. That "basically" should translate to: "almost, but NOT QUITE!"

BTW: there are other diagrams that matter, including the ones with a "c" and a "t" on the internal lines. You're going to need those.
 
Well, thanks for your replies. But just think of my expression with masses replaced according to
m_1 -> m_i , m_2 -> m_j and sum over i,j = u,c,t. I've done that. The masses vanish by moving the helicity projectors to the right and therefore you can write the sum behind this expression, so that it only acts on the masses in the denominator [= (k^2 - m_i^2)(k^2-m_j^2)* (k^2 - M_W^2)].

There has to be something else.

(Sorry, how do i implement TeX here ?)
 
"[ t e x ]" to open and "[ / t e x ]" to close
 
The masses do NOT vanish! The final answer should be of the form:

G_F^2(m_1^2 - m_2^2)

That's the GIM mechanism. So the term that is independent of masses DOES vanish, but the term with the masses only vanishes in the particles have the same mass. Check your gamma matrix algebra again! That's probably where you went wrong.

Also, if you want to include tex within the paragraph (like g_{\mu\nu}), use "[ i t e x ]" and "[ \ i t e x ]" (without the spaces between the letters, obviously).
 
Hi,

I started to calculate the neutral Kaon Box Diagram, can anyone tell me what is the first step to solve this integarl

I = \int \frac{d^4 k^2}{(k^2-M^2_W)^2 (k^2 - m^2_i) (k^2 - m^2_j)}

which appears in the dominator.

I think we need first to make feynman parametrization then wick rotation. Is it right ?
Because I can't do the right parametrization.

thx
 
Hi

I realize that this thread is very old, but it's new to me! Anyway, it seems to me that there are more questions here than answers (and some answers seemed to be misleading). So please allow me to first summarize the calculation in order to clarify the question, and then make a suggestion for the answer.

The Question:

Basically the question is how do the two box diagrams, which are equal and sum with a relative minus sign, not sum to zero? (The sum should actually give a function A(x_i,x_j) rather than zero.)

The calculation:

I've attached the relevant Feynman diagrams for the W boson box diagram which I'm going to discuss (see bottom of post). The reason I include it is because the original post linked to some diagrams which had a few mistakes.

Starting from the diagram on the left, and using the Feynman Gauge, it's easy to find,
<br /> \left(\frac{g}{\sqrt{2}}\right)^4<br /> \sum_{i,j=u,c,t}\lambda_i \lambda_j \int \frac{d^4 q}{(4\pi)^4}<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma^\mu P_L \frac{i(\not\! q+m_i)}{q^2-m_i^2}\gamma^\nu P_L s)\,<br /> (\bar{d}\gamma_\nu P_L \frac{i(\not\! q+m_j)}{q^2-m_j^2}\gamma_\mu P_L s)<br /> \left(\frac{-i}{q^2-M_W^2}\right)^2<br />
As the projection operators must match (i.e. P_L P_R =0), and recalling that P_L changes to P_R whenever it passes a \gamma^\mu, it is clear that the m_i and m_j terms are zero, leaving only the \not\! q terms;
<br /> \frac{g^4}{4}<br /> \sum_{i,j=u,c,t}\lambda_i \lambda_j \int \frac{d^4 q}{(4\pi)^4}<br /> \,\frac{q_\alpha q_\beta}{D}<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma^\mu \gamma^\alpha\gamma^\nu P_L s)<br /> (\bar{d}\gamma_\nu \gamma^\beta\gamma_\mu P_L s)<br />
Here we have defined, \lambda_i=V^{}_{is}V^{*}_{id}, where V is the CKM matrix, and
<br /> \frac{1}{D}=<br /> \frac{1}{(q^2-M_W^2)^2}\frac{1}{q^2-m_i^2}\frac{1}{q^2-m_j^2}<br /> \,.<br />
The next step is to do the integration using,
<br /> I_{\alpha\beta}(i,j)\equiv \int d^4 q \, <br /> \frac{q_\alpha q_\beta}{(q^2-M_W^2)^2(q^2-m_i^2)(q^2-m_j^2)}<br /> = \frac{-i\pi^2}{4 M_W^2}A(x_i,\,x_j)\,g_{\alpha\beta}<br />
with x_i=m_i^2/M_W^2. The function A is defined by,
<br /> A(x_i,\,x_j) = \frac{J(x_i)-J(x_j)}{x_i-x_j} <br />
and
<br /> J(x_i)=\frac{1}{1-x_i}<br /> + \frac{x_i^2 \,\ln x_i}{(1-x_i)^2}<br />
This is actually easy to prove, but I'll leave it out for now. Using this we now get
<br /> \frac{-i\,g^4\,\pi^2}{16 M_W^2(2\pi)^4}<br /> \sum_{i,j=u,c,t}\lambda_i \lambda_j <br /> \,A(x_i,\,x_j)<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma^\mu \gamma^\alpha\gamma^\nu P_L s)<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma_\nu \gamma_\alpha\gamma_\mu P_L s)<br /> \,.<br />
Next we simplify the combination, (\bar{d}\gamma^\mu \gamma^\alpha\gamma^\nu P_L s)<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma_\nu \gamma_\alpha\gamma_\mu P_L s). All you need to do here is make use of the \gamma matrix
identity,
<br /> \gamma^\mu \gamma^\alpha \gamma^\nu<br /> = g^{\mu\alpha}\gamma^\nu + g^{\nu\alpha}\gamma^\mu <br /> - g^{\mu\nu}\gamma^\alpha - i\epsilon^{\mu\alpha\nu\beta}\gamma_5 \gamma_\beta<br />
to show that,
<br /> (\bar{d}\gamma^\mu \gamma^\alpha\gamma^\nu P_L s)<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma_\nu \gamma_\alpha\gamma_\mu P_L s)<br /> =<br /> 4\,<br /> (\bar{d}\gamma^\mu P_L s)<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma_\mu P_L s)<br />
and then the result for the left diagram becomes,
<br /> -\frac{i\,g^4\,\pi^2}{4 M_W^2\,(2\pi)^4}<br /> \sum_{i,j=u,c,t}\lambda_i \lambda_j <br /> \,A(x_i,\,x_j)<br /> \,<br /> (\bar{d}\gamma^\mu P_L s)<br /> \,(\bar{d}\gamma_\mu P_L s)<br /> \,.<br />
Now if we do the same calculation for the box diagram on the right we actually get the same result. So how is it that we don't get zero when we add up the two diagrams?

My suggested answer:

The 4-quark operators which appear in the two diagrams aren't actually the same.
They connect different s-quarks to different d-quarks. In the left diagram it is the two initial(final) state quarks which are connected, while in the right diagram it is one from the initial state and one from the final state. In order to become the same 4-quark operator we need to use a Fierz rearrangement,
<br /> (\bar{d}_{1L} \gamma^\mu s_{2L})<br /> \,(\bar{d}_{3L} \gamma_\mu s_{4L})<br /> = -<br /> (\bar{d}_{1L} \gamma^\mu s_{4L})<br /> \,(\bar{d}_{3L} \gamma_\mu s_{2L})<br />
and hence introduce an extra minus sign, so that the total is just twice that for the first diagram given above.

Does anyone know if this is the correct solution to the problem?
 

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  • W_Box_Kaon_Mxing.jpg
    W_Box_Kaon_Mxing.jpg
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Does anybody can give me a hint on how to reach

<br /> S_0(x_t) = \frac{3}{2}\frac{x_t^3}{(1-x_t)^3} \ln{x_t} - [\frac{1}{4}+\frac{9}{4}\frac{1}{1-x_t}-\frac{3}{2}\frac{1}{(1-x_t)^2}] x_t<br />

from

<br /> A(x_i,\,x_j) = \frac{J(x_i)-J(x_j)}{x_i-x_j}<br />

in the limit of large mt?
 
  • #10
Please open a new thread, this one is from 2010.
 

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