Can a Former Felon Succeed as an Engineer?

[Poop-Loops]

Banning rap wouldn't accomplish anything. It would just piss off a lot of people and they'd find other ways to listen to it.

I'm glad to hear you skyrocketed like that JimmI. But your calculator problem actually shows that it's not that society doesn't want to help you out, it's just that they are too lazy to do it. Why go through the trouble of filling out paper work when they could just say "no" instead?

PL

 

[Knavish]

This reminds me of a book: Les Miserables. Read it. It kicks ass.

 

[Monique]

Is there some similarity between getting pregnant and being convicted of a felony?

There is: privacy of information, some questions cannot be asked during an interview or on an application.

There was a controversy some time ago where it was questioned whether a person convicted of a felony, who has finished the sentence, needs to inform the surrounding community. The point was that when someone has done time, they have been punished and they should not continue to pay for it by stigmatization. The problem was with convicted child-molesters. The fact that the community could not be warned if such a person moved into their area, led to the controversy that children became victim of that molester. The community then demanded for the laws to be changed so that when a person had done time for child-molestation, they'd be warned of that fact.

 

[JimmI_Hendrix]

Child Molesters are a breed all their own. I was actually incarcerated right next to Florida's Jimmy Rice center where Florida houses the worst of the worst sexual offenders. No one likes child molesters, myself included. But i don't like the Jimmy Rice law that let's Florida "Detain" sexual offenders indefinitely until a psychiatrist deems them recovered from treatment. So a person sentenced to say 5 years can theoretically be held for life. I think the new law is a lot more fair. If a person is conviced of a sex crime involving a child the sentence is 25 years to life in prison, and if released on parole they will be monitered for the rest of their lives by G.P.S. At lest this new law let's them know up front what the punishmet is. Jimmy Rice is unfair in the way that it's used, the government can decide who needs to be detained in a piecemeal way which leads to prosicutorial misconduct. On the flip side of the sex crime issue is the 19 or 20 year old guy who slept with an underage girl he met in a club that was supposed to chech her ID and make sure that she was an adult. I know someone who that happened to and now he's a registered sex offender.

 

[Icebreaker]

What if you had a long-time girlfriend who is 1 year younger than you? When you reach 18, what happens?

Anyway I'm very glad you could turn your life around, JimmI, and I'm sure you will excel at your future endeavours.

On a curious note: if you were a convicted fellon and were in prison, are you eligible for professorship?

 

[Monique]

On a curious note: if you were a convicted fellon and were in prison, are you eligible for professorship?

Why not? You are judged for your academic contributions, not whether you go to church every week.

 

[Icebreaker]

What about the age difference question?

 

[Evo]

What about the age difference question?

The answer is that once you become 18, you can be arrested as an adult for raping a child (your girlfriend), it doesn't matter if she consents. I know, it's nuts, but that's the law in the US.

 

[Artermis]

JimmI, your story was very touching. I would agree with you that you ARE at a disadvantage, whoever tells you that you aren't is wrong, simply because that society is really that unkind, unforgiving and irrational.

However, if you keep a positive attitude and refuse to take no for an answer (as, undoubtedly, many potential employers will simply see your criminal record and throw you out the door with their finger over the silent alarm button), I am sure that you will go very far given from what I can tell from your posts.

 

[ktpr2]

Let it be known that if I were a manager I would hire Jimi, for what it's worth. And so would many who posted on this thread. So that's something.

 

[JimmI_Hendrix]

What if you had a long-time girlfriend who is 1 year younger than you? When you reach 18, what happens?

Anyway I'm very glad you could turn your life around, JimmI, and I'm sure you will excel at your future endeavours.

On a curious note: if you were a convicted fellon and were in prison, are you eligible for professorship?

I don't know the answer to that question.But with my background i would probably be able to reach some borderline kids and help them stay on the right track.

Nathan Mcall wrote a book that has been an inspiration to me "Makes Me Wana Holler". It's a biography about his life. He also went to prison for robbery, changed his life around, and ended up writing for the New York Times!

 

[so-crates]

The answer is that once you become 18, you can be arrested as an adult for raping a child (your girlfriend), it doesn't matter if she consents. I know, it's nuts, but that's the law in the US.

In most states I believe there needs to be more than a 2-year age difference. What bugs me is how can you tell if the girl is under 18. If you are 20 and a 16-year old girl lies and says she's 18, you can be convicted of statutory rape. A similar circumstance happened to Michael Vick's brother, Marcus Vick - though he only was convicted of distributing alcohol to minors (a misdemeanor). I don't know the full circumstances of the case but when you have an age difference like that I think there needs to be some common sense. Our society still hangs on to the fantasy that older teenage girls are totally innocent and that if they engage in intercourse it must be because of a predatory male.

Jimm1_Hendrix: What type of engineering degree do you have? I believe a felony conviction would pretty much bar you from getting anything with a U.S. DoD contractor due to security clearance issues, which in my area (D.C. suburbs) is like 80% of the technical jobs. I have a degree in CS(4 years since my bachelors :-( ) and have had a lot of difficulty finding opportunities despite having internship experience in college, so I would imagine its going to be a tough fight. Your GPA is pretty good but there are a lot of people sporting 3.5's. I just went on an interview Friday and my competition was two fresh grads, I know that I definitely have to be a disadvantage because of how far removed from my bachelor's without any direct work experience.

 

[JimmI_Hendrix]

I'm working on a mechanical engineering degree so-crates.

 

[so-crates]

My suggestion would probably then be to not only work really hard in your classes, etc. but also to try to find an interesting project to work on. You will probably have to demonstate not only that your aren't the same person that wen't to jail, but that you are also a cut above the rest in terms of motivation, work ethic, and creativity.

 

[mathwonk]

mr hendrix, i recommend telling the truth on your applications, even if it turns off some employers. otherwise you would always be wondering when they are going to find out and fire you. if you are up front then you know when you do get a job there is nothing to fear.

i recall a girl who was admitted to harvard who had committed murder as a minor, but the case was supposedly sealed, so she did not mention it on her application. then she was outed and there was a big problem, maybe she was kicked out. you do not want that after you have put in your time and effort doing a good job, and the longer you would go without getting caught, the worse it would become to lose all you had worked for.

hang in there.

 

[JimmI_Hendrix]

That's how I'm going to go about it,i'm going to tell the whole truth from the very beginning. Some one is going to hire me and get a great engineer! If for no other reason a company would wan't me around because i'd be loyal to them. When i get my opportunity I'm going to take full advantage of it.

I have another question for the community. I am a very muscular guy. I weigh between 235-240. I have big arms and chest from years of lifting weights in prison. I find that some people are easily intimidated by my size even though I'm only 5'9''. I don't look like the "typical engineer". Do you think that my size will effect my employment opportunites in a negative way?

 

[Dracovich]

Interesting question Jimmi, although you're certainly bigger then me, I'm kinda athletic and I've noticed some weird looks from showing up to school with black eyes and various injuries from training Could imagine it being a problem if i were to get into an non-liberal office environment. Although it's years away still.

 

[Norman]

That's how I'm going to go about it,i'm going to tell the whole truth from the very beginning. Some one is going to hire me and get a great engineer! If for no other reason a company would wan't me around because i'd be loyal to them. When i get my opportunity I'm going to take full advantage of it.

I have another question for the community. I am a very muscular guy. I weigh between 235-240. I have big arms and chest from years of lifting weights in prison. I find that some people are easily intimidated by my size even though I'm only 5'9''. I don't look like the "typical engineer". Do you think that my size will effect my employment opportunites in a negative way?

Hey Jimmi,

I don't know if your size will be an issue if you present a professional appearance. I think professionalism and honesty will be your greatest weapons in finding employment. On another level, have you considered going on to grad school? I have heard in engineering that in the real world (that is not university), graduate degrees in engineering can actually make it difficult to get jobs without real world experience, but maybe you could get a Ph.D. and become a professor? Or teach somewhere? Anyways, just some ideas. Stay positive and work hard. I think you are at a disadvantage compared to the squeaky clean white kids, but you also have the maturity and life experiences that some employers are looking for. In the end I am positive things will work out for you.
Good luck and god speed.
Norm

 

[mathwonk]

Thats not a problem, and unless you keep lifting, it will gradually diminish from years of just lifting a pencil and sitting at at desk.

In fact you may find you need to be mindful of staying in shape, if you get a desk job.

 

[mathwonk]

Jimmi,

you know I've been thinking... there is a potential issue with intimidation, but it is not exactly the same as size.

men in some situations, presumably including prison, may learn to behave in a threatening manner, to protect themselves. I know I had to when I worked in the meat market. If I didn't, some of those guys would have "eaten my lunch" every day.

But any kind of threatening body language or speech, is out of bounds in an office setting. We have to learn even to take some verbal abuse, without ever threatening physical retaliation, as we might in an all male, physical work setting.

It can be very frustrating to be read out by some twit, or seriously mistreated, and never respond by losing our temper. But even shouting in an office environment can be cause for dismissal, regardless of who is right.

Presumably you are already getting some practice at this in grad school, but if this rings a bell, you might want some professional advice and coaching, better than just our opinions here.

It can be done. You just say goodbye to those old attitudes of survival forever, and use exercise, and maybe meditation or worship if that's your thing, to blow off steam.

Ultimately, the fact is the "way of yielding" is more powerful, as both Jesus and Jigoro Kano [founder of modern judo] knew, but it takes persistence.

You are a new man now, in every way, and probably you have already dealt with this. Putting people at ease is all about smiling and remaining calm, and respecting their words, their feelings, and their space. There are many large but gentle people out there.

Best wishes.

 

[JimmI_Hendrix]

I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses to this thread. Two years ago I had never seen what the internet was or had even heard of a message board. The change my life has taken amazes me all the time! Two years ago I had to take public showers and use public toilets, and even on the days that my family visited me i'd have to strip totally naked in front of an officer before i was allowed into the visiting park to see my family.I know that might be offensive to some people but that's just how life in prison is.But now, life has taken new meaning! I can go to Starbucks and order a vinte white chocolate mocha (extra hot!). I can watch the science channel all day.I can sit under the pecan trees in my yard and read computer gaming world (while drooling about the next Unreal Tournament game).
I can I can I can...

 

[bfd]

I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses to this thread. Two years ago I had never seen what the internet was or had even heard of a message board. The change my life has taken amazes me all the time! Two years ago I had to take public showers and use public toilets, and even on the days that my family visited me i'd have to strip totally naked in front of an officer before i was allowed into the visiting park to see my family.I know that might be offensive to some people but that's just how life in prison is.But now, life has taken new meaning! I can go to Starbucks and order a vinte white chocolate mocha (extra hot!). I can watch the science channel all day.I can sit under the pecan trees in my yard and read computer gaming world (while drooling about the next Unreal Tournament game).
I can I can I can...

God bless you and I wish you good luck in your future endeavors. Follow your talent and I guarnetee the rest will fall into place.

 

[omagdon7]

To whoever said what happens if you turn 18 and your girlfriend is 1 year younger. In Florida it is legal for anyone under the age of 24 to have relations with anyone 16 or older. So actually nothing would happen.

 

[An Average Joe]

First, the laws are attitudes of prosecutors are shifting back and forth so frequently that it is impossible to know what is legal or not in many cases.

If you are in Florida, or anywhere else for that matter, and your girlfriend is under 18, the wisest thing that you can do is to understand that even if she is begging you for sex you are better off abstaining because society will quite literally hang you for it. Imagine your face. Now imagine your face on a sexoffender website. Imagine your face on posters, flyers and billboards all over your neighborhood. Now imagine your funeral. It happens.

All of this is really quite disturbing, considering the fact that we had a US President who was married to a 17 year old, and the most famous female country artist in the US ever was married and pregnant at 12 - and nobody seemed to notice at the time.

Today, there is a very active campaign in government and elsewhere to encourage violence against sex offenders, and the definition of sexoffender seems to be broadening.

It is also useful to note that some cultures are even more sexually repressed than we are, and their governments have issued official edicts calling for the deaths of people such as Madonna and others. Yet most people in our culture are not offended by Madonna.


Regarding your employment prospects, if you are African American it may be easier for you to find employment than a white candidate who also has a criminal record. The EEOC has issued statements which imply that you have some inherent, limited protections.

These protections would not apply to whites. It has something to do with the weird logic of EEOC policies. I would check it out and exploit it if I were you. Your ethnicity may actually be an advantage.

Also note that there has been a very large program to keep felons unemployed for the past 50 years or more. The ability of employers to discriminate has grown in direct proportion to their ability to acces information such as criminal records, etc. Today, the computer makes it possible for every employer to dig up as much dirt as they like in seconds.

In my opinion, these practices are primary sources of chaos in society.

I would recommend that you always answer truthfully on a job app. And do not lose hope. Many will say no, others may become violent. But eventually you will find someone who says yes. And if you don't find that job, then you MUST start your own business and fight for legislation which will offset the intense discrimination.

 

[moose]

The answer is that once you become 18, you can be arrested as an adult for raping a child (your girlfriend), it doesn't matter if she consents. I know, it's nuts, but that's the law in the US.

I've always thought that there was that two year law, where if there was a two year difference or less than it is lawful. For example, a 19 year old with 17, or 18 year old with 16...I should look it up.

 

[An Average Joe]

That would be a very dangerous assumption. Prosecutors have a great deal of flexibility to interpret the law in this area. I would say that it is very much like going before Pontius Pilate. You will either go absolutely free like Barabbas, or you will be crucufied.

I'm not a sex offender, but I think that the punishment schedule for sex crimes is completely out of whack because no politician wants to be an Alfred Kinsey. They lack the courage.

The result is cases such as one recent situation where a little boy and girl were playing doctor or some damn thing and the DA charged them both as sex criminals!

------- returning to topic --->>>

Opportunities for engineers are ambiguous. There are prohibitions barring felons being employed as professional engineers, but some people interpret certain applications of these prohibitions as unethically extreme.

Take a look at this case study
http://www.niee.org/cases/78-88/case78-2.htm

-----------------------
Code of Ethics Section 13 "The Engineer will not associate with, or allow the use of his name by an enterprise of questionable character, nor will he become professionally associated with engineers who do not conform to ethical practices, or with persons not legally qualified to render the professional services for which the association is intended."
-----------------------

So, if they wanted to, they could tell you to go to hell. But if they felt sorry for you, or if you were related to Senator such-n-such, the rules could be bent to allow you to work. In most cases they will tell you to get lost, regardless of your qualifications. Reality.

Also, keep in mind that the "former engineer" in this case study was being considered for employment as a "technician". So, the implication is that you cannot possibly be a member in good standing of the NSPE if you are a felon.

Regarding opportunities in higer education, this is 2005. Not 1978. The attitude has completely changed, and Boards of Regents are firing professors with felony convictions faster than you can say "post hoc ergo procter hoc".

There are numerous cases where Universities have caved to public pressure and fired an otherwise good professor. Meanwhile, anyone with a criminal record in another country who comes here to teach or work will go right under the radar.

In fact, even if the police are aware that said immigrant has a criminal history in another country, they cannot be denied the right to posses firearms, because they did not break the law on US soil ! Still, American sex-tourists who visit prostitutes in other countries are being tried when they come back to the US ! And I should probably add that the sex-tourist prosecutions are typically not applied to US servicemen, who are the primary consumers of prostitutes abroad.

One last thing, the NSPE only deals with professional engineers. It is still quite possible to be hired by a company as an engineer - regardless of the NSPE's attempt to enforce extrajudicial punishments in the workplace.

And if you committed a felony outside the US and immigrated to the US, chances are very good that the NSPE will never catch on.

 

[An Average Joe]

One more note on this, if you read carefully :

-----------------------
Code of Ethics Section 13 "The Engineer will not associate with, or allow the use of his name by an enterprise of questionable character, nor will he become professionally associated with engineers who do not conform to ethical practices, or with persons not legally qualified to render the professional services for which the association is intended."
-----------------------

You can see that the intended wording can also imply that engineering firms do not do any business with companies which might be owned by felons. Many businesses "are" conducting background checks on their suppliers, customers, and others.

So, even if you were able to start your own business, anticompetitive policies which are specifically designed to shut you out of the economy will eventually drive you out of the marketplace. It is policy to not hire you. It is also policy not to patronize your business.

The only thing which is unclear about such policies is whether the intention is to drive you out of the country, or to drive you out of existence. Whatever the case, I think that you'll be treated much better in another country.

 

[Evo]

I've always thought that there was that two year law, where if there was a two year difference or less than it is lawful. For example, a 19 year old with 17, or 18 year old with 16...I should look it up.

It varies by state, and it varies by classification, for example if the older person is in a position of trust (teacher) for example, there may be no age limitation. I was thinking specifically of a recent case here where an 18 year old was convicted of statutory rape of his 17 year old girlfriend (she got pregnant). Even though she initially said she consented, she changed her story (it seems like she got angry at her boyfriend and decided to get revenge, from what I read), they prosecuted him. She's a minor, he's an adult.

 

[An Average Joe]

There is a great deal of confusion regarding what is legal and what is not. Every state has it's own idiosyncratic laws and local culture.

There is, however, quite a bit of agreement regarding punishments. There is a voice which is getting louder which calls for the death of any sex offender. Many people are very enthusiatic in their impunity, so much so that Americans may risk extinction out of fear to procreate.

There has always been a tradition of hazing sex offenders in prison, many have been killed by other inmates. The history of this is very brutal, no different than most 3rd world countries.

The irrationality of all of this is self evident. But if you are an 18 year old male with a 17 year old girlfriend, keep in mind that having sex can make you an enemy of the state. And if you go to prison for it you might not come back. I'm NOT making this up. I have seen inmates who were so doped up on psychotropics that their extremeties swell up, they turn into goons. Prison is full of them. It is a chemical lobotomy, and the effects are very similar to the surgical variety. That a simple, natural act of love could lead to a punishment such as this -

At one time, prison populations were small. If you manufactured a monster here or there it did not affect the whole country. Today, the mechanics of incarcerating have not changed much, but we have over 2 million people currently behind bars. Statistically, we have raised the probability of disasterous consequences, we see the evidence every night on the news. And leadership to develop real solutions is weak, or nonexistent.

It is my sincere hope that Hendrix will find a good job, but in all honesty, I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[GCT]

by the way what is the age limit for the female when it comes to marrying or sleeping wit h them?