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Can a Magnetic Dipole Form a Circle?

  1. Dec 21, 2011 #1
    Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I'm in Grade 7

    I just learned that Magnets have dipoles--like this:
    If those dipoles formed a circle, wouldn't it be possible to create perpetual motion?
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 21, 2011 #2
    Perpetual motion under the Maxwell Equations? Doubt it. Energy must have a source.

    There are some situations where we think quantum systems have a very slight chance of generating free energy...but it's a difficult inquiry and it doesn't seem promising. Under classical physics, it's a big fat zero for free energy.
  4. Dec 21, 2011 #3


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    Perpetual motion is forbidden by the laws of thermodynamics.

    Gamesguru, do you have any sources for your claims about quantum systems? I'm yet to see anything credible in that respect.
  5. Dec 22, 2011 #4


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    Perpetual motion and free energy devices are not discussable per PF rules. The simple fact is that it is impossible to generate perpetual motion. Period. LaPXL8R if you have another question on magnets or dipoles that doesn't involve perpetual motion please make another thread.
  6. Dec 22, 2011 #5
    Huummm... I would say yes, but the question is a little “vague”, so for all the seventh graders, the tougher than a twelve year old sentient, each one teach one.

    Consider instead a sphere, rather than a circle, the field is a three dimensional construct, generated by the magnet. You can easily observe this effect with a simple experiment, think of a watermelon with a seed in the middle (represents magnet) if you cut through the melon, your cut might appear as circle, if you cut at an angle it will appear oval. The experiment for you, take a piece of glass or paper (represents cutting plane), support in some type of “frame”, place magnet under, dust ferrous material on glass or paper, then tap the surface like a drum (vibration supplies energy needed for “sorting”, which will reflect magnetic fields).

    If you do that, you will see layered fields much like the figure above, change the position and orientation of magnet, and try again, you should find some interesting things (this is where Maxwell comes in) Now the question was “perpetual energy”, by classical physics answered No (thermodynamics, you lose and generate heat all the time, think friction)
    Now, consider that whenever a “ring” of conductive metallic composite is brought in existence, it, on its “own”, is generating a current or electron movement, very very small, but still an effect... I will leave that explanation for those trying to achieve alphabet soup behind their names,by agreeing with the new democratic forms of “science”.

    I guess what I'm saying, is there are those whom might tell you “Maxwell” needs to be worked on, probably by seventh graders asking questions. I suggest a little google work “ Thom Bearden, cheniere” maybe you will be able to gather a bit more insight on fields

    The question was good , just needs a little tuning, somebody should have suggested the induction of “circular magnet fields with rotation” being the bases of a practically all electrical power generation. I mean “nuclear plants” only boil water for steam to turn a magnet.

    Thank goodness this Kid didn't ask how to account of a Pyroclastic observance, using only mass and gravity..... Excuse me, I'm going to light my head on fire and beat it out with a sedge hammer now.
  7. Dec 22, 2011 #6
    Erm... why? Would it negate friction somehow? In some ways, perpetual motion may already exist. As far as I know, neutrinos have mass, but don't slow down from their near-lightspeed velocity.
  8. Dec 22, 2011 #7
    The term "Perpetual Motion" does not mean inertial motion, but rather constant motion as energy is extracted. It obviously violates energy conservation, is therefore pseudo-science and not up for discussion on Physics Forums.
  9. Dec 22, 2011 #8
    Would it negate friction somehow ... mag trains (magnetic levitation) lessons friction, in vacuum, maybe pure energy transfer... Think super conductor "NO" resistance, you have classically defined the problem between astrophysics, and current thought on quantum structure ... try thinking plank in term of "frames" and movement steps, where something is always moving toward future, what you think of as arrow of time .... does everything evolve to chaos or do system simplify themselves ... and do not discount strange attachments remember you're trying to work with probabilities Everything is moving all the time or the construct as known would not exist ... the question is the energy transfer that makes it vibrate and thus visible
  10. Dec 22, 2011 #9
    Superconductivity and superfluidity open many doors.

    I agree I haven't seen anything else substantiated...it's all ********. I can probably dig up some of the crazier claims I've come across if you want. PM me.

    There might also be technologies which allow us to extract energy from the CMB. That's purely theoretical as yet however.
  11. Dec 22, 2011 #10

    Vanadium 50

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    This whole thread is one speculation on top of another. Please reread the PF Rules everybody!
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