Programs Can a physicist study neuroscience?

[Non Euclidean]

Hello, I am a undergraduate student in physics. In the future, i want to be neuroscientist. What can i do?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

The most obvious path is to go to graduate school in neuroscience. The next step for that would be to look at various graduate programs and understand what there admissions requirements are.

There are other paths. In grad school, I watched one of my mentors, Michael Feld, transition from AMO physics to heart science. A list of his publications is easily searchable on Google Scholar:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,11&q=Michael+Feld+Heart&btnG=

With that as inspiration, when the time came, I moved from AMO physics to a number of scholarly papers in brain injury:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...hael+Courtney+Amy+Courtney+brain+injury&btnG=

There are many paths other than earning a PhD in a field, though I expect earning a PhD in the desired field is the easiest one. Having transitioned to a few other fields also, my approach to transitioning to fields other than AMO physics usually looks something like this:

1. Read a lot of published papers in the field of interest.
2. Consider carefully what niche in the new field is a good match for my talents.
3. Brainstorm the idea with colleagues who know my strengths and weaknesses.
4. Read a lot more published papers in the new field of interest.
5. Get feedback from established scientists in the new field of interest.
6. Plan and write a review paper meeting a significant need where I think my strengths match a need in the new field.
7. Consider possible new instruments or methods or experiments that may be useful in the new field.
A. In neuroscience, I invented several new shock tubes for lab simulation of blast waves.
B. In fisheries science, I extended the use of using relative condition factor as a bioindicator and correlating it with possible causal factors.
C. In fisheries science, I also extended the use of neodymium magnets connected to hooks to detect magnetoreception in new species.

There are many notable examples of scientists with a PhD in one field (or no PhD at all) making significant contributions in others. Pasteur, Faraday, and Crick are some of my favorite examples.

It takes a certain amount of chutzpah to successfully begin and publish scientific work in a field where one does not have a PhD. I learned that chutzpah from Michael Feld, and I am grateful for his example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stephen_Feld

 

[ZapperZ]

Hello, I am a undergraduate student in physics. In the future, i want to be neuroscientist. What can i do?

I know you got a response to this, but I think there a huge amount of unknowns and ambiguity here.

1. Where in the world are you studying? The ability to "jump ship" can vary from one educational system to the next.

2. What is preventing you from going for the most direct route, i.e. studying in a major that is more common for those intending to go into neuroscience?

3. Do you intend to just "study neuroscience" and maybe do research related to that field, or do you intend to become a neurologist? These two may have widely different paths. What Dr. Courtney described is someone who already has a PhD in one field and went into another field related to medicine. But that person is not a medical doctor and is not licensed to treat patients. A neurologist has a M.D degree, able to treat and diagnose patients, etc. So, do you intend to pursue a PhD in physics, and then do research work in neuroscience, or do you intend to get an undergraduate degree in physics, then try to go into medical school to become a neurologist?

Zz.

 

[StatGuy2000]

I know you got a response to this, but I think there a huge amount of unknowns and ambiguity here.

1. Where in the world are you studying? The ability to "jump ship" can vary from one educational system to the next.

2. What is preventing you from going for the most direct route, i.e. studying in a major that is more common for those intending to go into neuroscience?

3. Do you intend to just "study neuroscience" and maybe do research related to that field, or do you intend to become a neurologist? These two may have widely different paths. What Dr. Courtney described is someone who already has a PhD in one field and went into another field related to medicine. But that person is not a medical doctor and is not licensed to treat patients. A neurologist has a M.D degree, able to treat and diagnose patients, etc. So, do you intend to pursue a PhD in physics, and then do research work in neuroscience, or do you intend to get an undergraduate degree in physics, then try to go into medical school to become a neurologist?

Zz.

As you may well be aware, neuroscience and neurology are two different fields -- neuroscience is the science of how the brain (or more particularly, neurons or biological neural networks) work, whereas neurology is a sub-field within medicine that involves medical care related to the brain.

There have been examples of biophysicists or those with physics training pursuing research in what would be considered neuroscience (John Hopfield is the most famous example with his research on Hebbian learning and the Hopfield network, but there are many others). So the OP (depending on what choices he/she pursues) could pursue a graduate degree in neuroscience.

As for the direct route -- perhaps I may be mistaken, but neuroscience is one of those fields that tend not to have a direct route (I'm not aware of too many schools, in North America or elsewhere, that offer neuroscience as an undergraduate program).

 

[Non Euclidean]

I know you got a response to this, but I think there a huge amount of unknowns and ambiguity here.

1. Where in the world are you studying? The ability to "jump ship" can vary from one educational system to the next.

2. What is preventing you from going for the most direct route, i.e. studying in a major that is more common for those intending to go into neuroscience?

3. Do you intend to just "study neuroscience" and maybe do research related to that field, or do you intend to become a neurologist? These two may have widely different paths. What Dr. Courtney described is someone who already has a PhD in one field and went into another field related to medicine. But that person is not a medical doctor and is not licensed to treat patients. A neurologist has a M.D degree, able to treat and diagnose patients, etc. So, do you intend to pursue a PhD in physics, and then do research work in neuroscience, or do you intend to get an undergraduate degree in physics, then try to go into medical school to become a neurologist?

Zz.

Actually i am not interested in medicine. I preferred physics department , because i was wondering about how does nature work. In recent years, i feel more passionate about how brain works , how we learn and how machines can learn. Of course, Neurologists study brain , especially brain diseases. However that is not field that i’m interested. Neuroscience, computational neuroscience or cognitive science. They are interdisciplinary areas, not just about medicine.

 

[Andy Resnick]

Hello, I am a undergraduate student in physics. In the future, i want to be neuroscientist. What can i do?

Assuming you are at an institution with neuroscience/computational neuroscience/cognitive science faculty, start by finding out what they do (recently published work), stop by their office, and ask to work on a research project with them.

 

[ZapperZ]

Actually i am not interested in medicine. I preferred physics department , because i was wondering about how does nature work. In recent years, i feel more passionate about how brain works , how we learn and how machines can learn. Of course, Neurologists study brain , especially brain diseases. However that is not field that i’m interested. Neuroscience, computational neuroscience or cognitive science. They are interdisciplinary areas, not just about medicine.

Yes, I know that, but that's not obvious from what you were asking. That is why I asked for clarification. I personally know someone who is a physicist but used fMRI to study ... something... in neurology.

Zz.

 

[TheKracken5]

I am a math major also interested in Neuroscience. I have done a lot of looking into the field and what not and from what I gathered physics is even better than mathematics for going into the computational side. Electrical Engineering is also a really good major for it. The field is full of dynamical systems so if you like differential equations then you can get plenty. I personally love DEQ's but I will be trying to go for more of statistical modeling so I can work with researchers in the field.

 

[Eagle9]

Dr. Courtney
ZapperZ
StatGuy2000
Andy Resnick
TheKracken5Hello guys

I stumbled across a suitable thread and therefore I will ask this question here: currently I am PhD student in neuroscience and I am dealing with brain’s neuroanatomy and physiology in case of Autism. But I am more interested in Computational neuroscience, the problem of consciousness and things like them. To my mind, this is the most complex, mysterious and intriguing topic to be explored.

Could you please tell me what branch of Mathematics/Calculus/ is needed for this purpose? Actually, is there some special branch in Mathematics that is necessary for Computational neuroscience? Or perhaps general Mathematics/Calculus is enough for this purpose?

 

[StatGuy2000]

Dr. Courtney
ZapperZ
StatGuy2000
Andy Resnick
TheKracken5Hello guys

I stumbled across a suitable thread and therefore I will ask this question here: currently I am PhD student in neuroscience and I am dealing with brain’s neuroanatomy and physiology in case of Autism. But I am more interested in Computational neuroscience, the problem of consciousness and things like them. To my mind, this is the most complex, mysterious and intriguing topic to be explored.

Could you please tell me what branch of Mathematics/Calculus/ is needed for this purpose? Actually, is there some special branch in Mathematics that is necessary for Computational neuroscience? Or perhaps general Mathematics/Calculus is enough for this purpose?

Hi @Eagle9 . I am by no means an expert in the field of computational neuroscience, but from what I am aware of, people that I know that have pursued this field tend to come from quantitative fields such as mathematics, physics, computer science, electrical engineering, or similar cognate fields.

It's worth pointing out that computational neuroscience is a vast and somewhat ill-defined field, so there are many entry points into that area of research. In fact, I have read before that studying the brain's neuroanatomy and physiology (as you are currently doing) have contributed into providing information for computational models of the brain.

As for which branch of math to take -- in general, in any quantitative field will probably require calculus (certainly introductory calculus, and probably more senior level calculus or analysis courses) and linear algebra. Differential equations may be of use as well, but perhaps not a requirement. Since we are talking about "computational" neuroscience -- obviously this implies having a strong computing/programming knowledge. Beyond that, I'm not really in a position to give much more advice.

My suggestion would be to speak to your department or your PhD advisor about options available for you to pursue this avenue of research, and they could recommend a sequence of courses that you could take.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Most folks from other disciplines who enter computational neuroscience have considerable mathematical and computational firepower learned and refined from their work in their original discipline. There is not a short list of undergrad math courses that would qualify one. It is more or less all the math, science, and engineering courses typical of those degrees plus considerable real world (or other discipline) number crunching experience.

 

[Eagle9]

this field tend to come from quantitative fields such as mathematics, physics, computer science, electrical engineering, or similar cognate fields.

More or less I am aware of these fields (except Mathematics. Actually I learned it at school well and then at University, but then I have not used it, so I do not remember it) and in case of necessity I will recall/learn them.

The point is that – how much should I know in it? Mathematics is the most abstractive/difficult science, therefore I asked here about it

It's worth pointing out that computational neuroscience is a vast and somewhat ill-defined field, so there are many entry points into that area of research.

Very true. I am not interested in every aspect of computational neuroscience. My field of interest in problem of consciousness/mind, how we think, how other species think (if they think at all) and so on.

In other words – brain’s higher functions.

As for which branch of math to take -- in general, in any quantitative field will probably require calculus (certainly introductory calculus, and probably more senior level calculus or analysis courses) and linear algebra.

1. And how much time is needed to learn it?

2. “calculus+ linear algebra”, please tell me, physicist generally know more Mathematics? In other words, this knowledge is equal physicist’s knowledge in Mathematics? Or they (should) know more?

this implies having a strong computing/programming knowledge.

Which language is more suitable for this purpose?

My suggestion would be to speak to your department or your PhD advisor about options available for you to pursue this avenue of research, and they could recommend a sequence of courses that you could take.

I cannot. In my county (in eastern Europe) there is no such courses. Therefore I asked this question here

 

[StatGuy2000]

More or less I am aware of these fields (except Mathematics. Actually I learned it at school well and then at University, but then I have not used it, so I do not remember it) and in case of necessity I will recall/learn them.

The point is that – how much should I know in it? Mathematics is the most abstractive/difficult science, therefore I asked here about it
Very true. I am not interested in every aspect of computational neuroscience. My field of interest in problem of consciousness/mind, how we think, how other species think (if they think at all) and so on.

In other words – brain’s higher functions.

1. And how much time is needed to learn it?

2. “calculus+ linear algebra”, please tell me, physicist generally know more Mathematics? In other words, this knowledge is equal physicist’s knowledge in Mathematics? Or they (should) know more?
Which language is more suitable for this purpose?I cannot. In my county (in eastern Europe) there is no such courses. Therefore I asked this question here

To be honest, I am not qualified to answer any of your questions above. As for investigating brain's higher functions, that understanding (from my limited understanding of neuroscience and the surrounding literature) can come not only from a computational approach, but from a direct physiological approach or some combination of the two.

You state that in your country there are no such courses. But since you are a PhD student, you do have a PhD advisor, do you not? Could you not ask him/her about your interests in computational neuroscience? Regardless of what country you are in, your advisor should either provide you with the information to explore what additional material you need to learn (either through coursework, or through independent reading, if no courses are offered for PhD students at your university), or your advisor could refer you to colleagues who may have that information.

 

[Eagle9]

As for investigating brain's higher functions, that understanding (from my limited understanding of neuroscience and the surrounding literature) can come not only from a computational approach, but from a direct physiological approach or some combination of the two.

Yes, I think the same

your advisor should either provide you with the information to explore what additional material you need to learn (either through coursework, or through independent reading, if no courses are offered for PhD students at your university)

No, she is qualified in neuroanatomy and things like this, not in mathematics, physics and programming. That is why I asked this question here, for additional information

or your advisor could refer you to colleagues who may have that information.

Well, this would be more suitable way