Can Ampere's Law Still Apply When Whole Solenoid Is Enclosed?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Ampere's Law in the context of a solenoid. The original poster is questioning the validity of Ampere's Law when the Amperian surface is drawn as a rectangle that encloses the entire solenoid, as opposed to just one side of it.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand why Ampere's Law remains applicable when the entire solenoid is enclosed, expressing confusion over the implications of integrating the magnetic field along the sides of the rectangle. Some participants question the role of current direction and its effect on the evaluation of the integral.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants exploring the implications of current direction and its contribution to the integral in Ampere's Law. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in evaluating the contributions from different sides of the rectangle.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering the ideal conditions of the solenoid, including the assumption of no magnetic field outside the solenoid and the implications of enclosing all current within the Amperian surface.

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Homework Statement


I want to know why Ampere's Law can sitll be applied/valid if the Amperian surface is drawn as a rectangle which encloses a whole solenoid. Normally the rectangle would just include one side of the solenoid.


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



When only one side of the solenoid is enclosed, Ampere's Law will work because B and ds will be parallel on the side of the rectangle which is inside the solenoid so we can intergrate this to an non-zero value. But I'm confused about when the whole solenoid is enclosed by the rectangle. It is an ideal solenoid so there should be no magnetic field outside the solenoid so the integral of the 2 sides which are parallel to B will be 0. The other two sides are perpendicular to B so they will also = 0. The only reason I can think that Ampere's Law still applies is that all of the current is enclosed so that somehow helps with the solution?

I'm really stuck here, because I keep getting the left side of the equation =0 so I cannot see how the law is still valid.
 
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Remember that current has a direction. You have to consider not only how much current goes through the rectangle, but in which direction it goes through.
 
But I thought it only depended on the direction of B and ds for the left side of the laW?
 
So the current travels in opposite directions on opposite sides of the rectangle and therefore the current will cancel out? So when we evaluate each side of the rectangle with the intergral involving B and ds we are supposed to get 0 because the right side of the equation is also supposed to equal zero?
 

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