- #51
Stephanus
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billy_joule said:
Medical Can IQ be increased in an adult?
- Thread starter bluemoonKY
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AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the debate over whether adults can increase their IQ, with contrasting views from different authors. One perspective suggests that engaging in complex thinking can create lasting synaptic connections, potentially improving intelligence. In contrast, Charles Murray and Richard Hernstein argue that IQ stabilizes by age 18 and cannot be improved. Psychologists generally agree that while IQ tests measure general intelligence (g), they also reflect test-taking skills, which can be improved through study and practice. Overall, the consensus indicates that while IQ may not be easily altered, performance on IQ tests can be influenced by preparation and anxiety management.
- #52
Evo
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Just look at all of the geniuses on this forum, I'll bet the majority never had their IQ tested and they know it doesn't matter.
I lived most of my life near NASA and was told never to join groups like Mensa or Mega (Mega has higher IQ requirements than Mensa). Well, I never wanted to be around intellectual snobs, which is why I refused to go to those special schools. Truth was, aside from not wanting to leave home and my freedom, I preferred to be a big fish in a small pond, I had no desire to be up against other children on my level. Just call me "bored slacker".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Society
I lived most of my life near NASA and was told never to join groups like Mensa or Mega (Mega has higher IQ requirements than Mensa). Well, I never wanted to be around intellectual snobs, which is why I refused to go to those special schools. Truth was, aside from not wanting to leave home and my freedom, I preferred to be a big fish in a small pond, I had no desire to be up against other children on my level. Just call me "bored slacker".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Society
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- #53
jack476
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It depends on what you mean.
You can easily make your score on an administered IQ test higher, even one given by a trained professional. If you know which test you're going to be given, you can prepare yourself to make any number come out of it that you like. Case in point, when I was in high school I had to have testing done every semester as part of my IEP. They used the same test protocol every time, so I looked it up online and read about it, and decided that as a joke I would try to make a test come out as an obnoxiously high number. In the end, I was able to practice and prepare for the test without too much effort in order to "game" it, and I was able to get a score of 196. I like to think of myself as clever, but that's not even remotely realistic (there may be a dozen or so people in the world with IQ that high).
So yes, even as an adult it is possible to increase your on-paper IQ score (or strategically decrease it, if you're looking for a prescription to whatever the hot new study drug is these days) quite dramatically and without great difficulty. It should be pointed out that 1.) people who brag about their IQ are losers, so you don't really have much to gain from doing this, 2.) skills in the tasks measured by IQ tests aren't known conclusively to generalize (while mental visualization ability is a general skill that will lead to better performance on a shape rotation task, practicing shape rotation isn't on its own known to improve general ability to mentally visualize) so "practicing" for one probably won't actually lead to any significant gains in ability and 3.) you may be cheating yourself out of a diagnosis of an underlying learning or cognitive problem, if one exists (I already knew more or less exactly what was wrong with me anyway).
But if you actually want to make yourself smarter, that's a trickier beast. It's certainly possible. Like every other organ and structure in your body, SAID (selective adaptation to imposed demands) applies to your brain, and neuroplasticity is a well-documented phenomenon. Practicing of skills can lead to changes in the structure of the brain and gains in ability that cannot be attributed to mastery of those skills alone. Improving on one's physical health for better prevention of fatigue or better energy leads to better motivation, which enhances one's ability to solve problems. Better cognitive and learning skills will effectively make one more intelligent while not altering the brain's raw processing power. And obviously all the processing power in the world can't beat out experience and rote memory when it comes to solving problems. So yes, you can become more intelligent. But what isn't known is where the line between mastery of skill and change in processing power lies. If you become really good at mental arithmetic, for instance, is that merely the result of mastery of mental arithmetic or has there been a change in the structure of your brain to facilitate mental arithmetic? It seems likely that the correct answer is "both", to a varying extent.
Intelligence is not strictly "fixed" as a personality trait when you enter adulthood, but in general it is a safe assumption that people do not change frequently over the course of a lifetime. For instance, if you know someone who is consistently crabby and temperamental now, how much reason do you have to expect that his personality will be significantly different 6 months in the future? And to return to the analogy to improving one's physical strength, if you meet a person who is of average build tomorrow and has been his entire life, how likely is it that he'll develop an athletic level of tone within the next year? It's not that it's impossible by any stretch or even especially difficult to increase your intelligence, just that it's rare since most people will not be interested in making directed efforts towards doing so anyway.
You can easily make your score on an administered IQ test higher, even one given by a trained professional. If you know which test you're going to be given, you can prepare yourself to make any number come out of it that you like. Case in point, when I was in high school I had to have testing done every semester as part of my IEP. They used the same test protocol every time, so I looked it up online and read about it, and decided that as a joke I would try to make a test come out as an obnoxiously high number. In the end, I was able to practice and prepare for the test without too much effort in order to "game" it, and I was able to get a score of 196. I like to think of myself as clever, but that's not even remotely realistic (there may be a dozen or so people in the world with IQ that high).
So yes, even as an adult it is possible to increase your on-paper IQ score (or strategically decrease it, if you're looking for a prescription to whatever the hot new study drug is these days) quite dramatically and without great difficulty. It should be pointed out that 1.) people who brag about their IQ are losers, so you don't really have much to gain from doing this, 2.) skills in the tasks measured by IQ tests aren't known conclusively to generalize (while mental visualization ability is a general skill that will lead to better performance on a shape rotation task, practicing shape rotation isn't on its own known to improve general ability to mentally visualize) so "practicing" for one probably won't actually lead to any significant gains in ability and 3.) you may be cheating yourself out of a diagnosis of an underlying learning or cognitive problem, if one exists (I already knew more or less exactly what was wrong with me anyway).
But if you actually want to make yourself smarter, that's a trickier beast. It's certainly possible. Like every other organ and structure in your body, SAID (selective adaptation to imposed demands) applies to your brain, and neuroplasticity is a well-documented phenomenon. Practicing of skills can lead to changes in the structure of the brain and gains in ability that cannot be attributed to mastery of those skills alone. Improving on one's physical health for better prevention of fatigue or better energy leads to better motivation, which enhances one's ability to solve problems. Better cognitive and learning skills will effectively make one more intelligent while not altering the brain's raw processing power. And obviously all the processing power in the world can't beat out experience and rote memory when it comes to solving problems. So yes, you can become more intelligent. But what isn't known is where the line between mastery of skill and change in processing power lies. If you become really good at mental arithmetic, for instance, is that merely the result of mastery of mental arithmetic or has there been a change in the structure of your brain to facilitate mental arithmetic? It seems likely that the correct answer is "both", to a varying extent.
Intelligence is not strictly "fixed" as a personality trait when you enter adulthood, but in general it is a safe assumption that people do not change frequently over the course of a lifetime. For instance, if you know someone who is consistently crabby and temperamental now, how much reason do you have to expect that his personality will be significantly different 6 months in the future? And to return to the analogy to improving one's physical strength, if you meet a person who is of average build tomorrow and has been his entire life, how likely is it that he'll develop an athletic level of tone within the next year? It's not that it's impossible by any stretch or even especially difficult to increase your intelligence, just that it's rare since most people will not be interested in making directed efforts towards doing so anyway.
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- #54
Stephanus
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I tought you lived in England. You work at NASA?Evo said:
- #55
Evo
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No, I grew up next to NASA.Stephanus said:
- #56
Stephanus
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Ok. Today I learned the difference between MEGA, MENSA and NASA. All are high IQ!Evo said:
- #57
jack476
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Stephanus said:
But only NASA actually does anything useful :P
- #58
Stephanus
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Anything useful, Yes!. Only NASA, perhaps no. Some member in Mensa/Mega could have contributed something. Perhaps we just don't know. And I'm also a member of PULSA.jack476 said:
But it's a cellphone magazine.
- #59
Evo
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Mensa is rather normal IQ, 1 in only 50 people qualify, not special at all. And I have been told by former members to avoid it, it's nonsense. Both my first husband and his father worked for NASA, his dad has a plaque from the president of the US for being one of the engineers responsible for saving the Apollo 13 mission. They were of average intelligence, I dated mostly people from NASA and they were all of average intelligence, if I had to guess, not one of them had ever taken an IQ test. But they did valuable work. I have a genius IQ and I have done diddly squat.Stephanus said:
- #60
Stephanus
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Apollo 13?? Jim Lovell, Tom Hanks, Kevin Bacon and Bill Paxton? And your father in law? Is he the character portrayed by Ed Harris?Evo said:
- #61
Evo
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There was a team that solved the problem, he was one, he really didn't talk about it, I asked him about the plaque and he said "yeah". That's all. I got the impression that there wasn't anyone that did anything special, they were doing their job.Stephanus said:
- #62
Stephanus
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Wow, I really like to talk about Apollo 13! At least the movie, the accident, (or incident?). The intrigue behind it. How they used, "something" made by Grumman, to come back to earth. "I don't care what it is designed for! Can it take them back!"
But it's beside the topic. And even IQ is not the topic here.
The OP wants to know whether brain can create more synaptic.
But it's beside the topic. And even IQ is not the topic here.
The OP wants to know whether brain can create more synaptic.
That's interesting. Our muscles are somewhat loosed after long absent of excercise. Is our brain loosed also?bluemoonKY said:
- #63
Nidum
Science Advisor
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There are several medical conditions which cause premature reduction of brain activity and effectively a lowering of intelligence . Dementia is one of the most common .In recent times there have been developments in medical treatment which can sometimes slow the advancement of these conditions and partially reduce the harmful effects .
Could medication ever be developed which went further and actually enhanced brain activity in a healthy person and raised their intelligence level ?
Could medication ever be developed which went further and actually enhanced brain activity in a healthy person and raised their intelligence level ?
- #64
William White
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Evo said:
Trained psychologist - no
(are they the same camp as toothiticians?)
But I did the Mensa test (150); just to know that I could pass it - to satisfy myself that IQ is a load of balls.
The more highly qualified "intelligent" people I meet, the more I know that our definitions of intelligence are flawed.
- #65
Stephanus
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William White said:
And from what I learned in Relativity theory. Light travels faster than sound.
That's why someone looks brighter until you hear him/her speaking.
- #66
symbolipoint
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One cannot increase his I.Q.
One CAN increase in wisdom.
One CAN increase in wisdom.
- #67
William White
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Well, the point is, that the opposite is observed.
it is well known that scores in IQ can change (quite dramatically), due to environmental and societal factors (Flynn Effect).
It was observed that blacks living under Jim Crow had much lower IQ scores than whites.
IQs increased as environmental and societal factors improved.
What these IQ tests were testing was society, NOT intellgence.Wisdom is just the good application of experience gained as one ages, so saying that wisdom can increase is almost a pleonasm - in many cultures age=wisdom.
it is well known that scores in IQ can change (quite dramatically), due to environmental and societal factors (Flynn Effect).
It was observed that blacks living under Jim Crow had much lower IQ scores than whites.
IQs increased as environmental and societal factors improved.
What these IQ tests were testing was society, NOT intellgence.Wisdom is just the good application of experience gained as one ages, so saying that wisdom can increase is almost a pleonasm - in many cultures age=wisdom.
- #68
Dr_Zinj
- 95
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"A higher IQ is not the result of what has been learned. It's more the capacity to learn."
That's not a bad observation. I'd be more inclined to say it's more the level of capability to learn. That's still too limited a definition as intelligence also encompasses the ability to "connect the dots"; to take knowledge and observations and arrive at a correct conclusion. Part of the problem is that the older you get, the more dots and correct conclusions you know, so the more answers you know (or can easily infer) on an IQ test.
Knowing how to learn is a set of techniques. Some people seem to be born using those techniques automatically, but there is some evidence that those techniques are learned at an early age, not inherited. There's also been a few studies that indicate a correlation between those who succeed in law school and an increase in measured IQ; supporting a theory that law schools somehow cause students to learn how to learn better.
That's not a bad observation. I'd be more inclined to say it's more the level of capability to learn. That's still too limited a definition as intelligence also encompasses the ability to "connect the dots"; to take knowledge and observations and arrive at a correct conclusion. Part of the problem is that the older you get, the more dots and correct conclusions you know, so the more answers you know (or can easily infer) on an IQ test.
Knowing how to learn is a set of techniques. Some people seem to be born using those techniques automatically, but there is some evidence that those techniques are learned at an early age, not inherited. There's also been a few studies that indicate a correlation between those who succeed in law school and an increase in measured IQ; supporting a theory that law schools somehow cause students to learn how to learn better.
- #69
William White
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If high IQ is the capacity (or level of capability) to learn
then a low IQ is the lack of a capacity to learnThen how to explain the low IQ of black people living under Jim Crow in the USA?). These people did not have a lower capability or a lower capacity; they had a lower opportunity. The dramatic increase of measured IQ since Jim Crow can ONLY be explained by an increase in opportunity, and NOT an increase in the capability to learn.
Simply - IQ tests tell you NOTHING about intelligence, either innate, or the future capability.
then a low IQ is the lack of a capacity to learnThen how to explain the low IQ of black people living under Jim Crow in the USA?). These people did not have a lower capability or a lower capacity; they had a lower opportunity. The dramatic increase of measured IQ since Jim Crow can ONLY be explained by an increase in opportunity, and NOT an increase in the capability to learn.
Simply - IQ tests tell you NOTHING about intelligence, either innate, or the future capability.
- #70
JOSH19
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Hello guys, this is my first ever reply to any post on this blog. I joined 3 days ago, My name is Josh. I don't know much about how IQ is calculated and what is its scientific bast but i want to tell me real life story. I scored between 55% to 58% in school exams for first 10 years of my schooling... in 10th Std i failed the prelim exams (exams conducted by the school itself just like real final exams that are conducted by the educational board whch awards diploma of 10 years of schooling) then I studied for 15 days 10 hrs a day and scored 65% but the IQ test my school conducted (which was compulsory for choosing the future educational field, I failed in it with 33% out of 100 marks...my parents were called and informed about it with a warning letter) (Frankly speaking I never give a damn to exams and studies in my entire life, I always was interested in the concept more and as i used to grasp the essence I used to stop right there..whereas rest of the students used to be in the competitive mode with each other so they used to study-and study and practice 100 times till they become perfect).
I wanted to become an engineer so with 65% marks I went to Engineering... I couldn't cope up in the first semester as i didnt have practice to sustain study load (not because my study concepts were unclear)and failed in all subjects of that semester... we had annual pattern so I continued schooling for the rest of the year, i studied well and scored good 88% when I finished my first year I was 16 years old... continued that pace for next 5 years become a Mechanical Engineer with 80% Now you may be wondering why i am telling you all this! Well, I never took studies seriously...i am a lazy person... and hate solving questions in an competitive manner like a mad race...so i procrastinate... read on! My real test of IQ was done only 2-3 times in my entire academic life...when I took TOEFL, GRE and GMAT... I scored 90% in all three exams... in GRE i was close to 100%! I also took 2 step entrance exam called IIT-JEE in India which is famous for its toughest tough exam in the world with huge syllabus and extremely tough questions...I could clear first test called screen test in IIT-JEE... anyway... what I want to cay is, IQ testing might be the most stupid thing on earth... it may only tell whether a student will fail or not in finishing his course intellectually or faulter...nothing else! for me EQ is more important than IQ... my IQ when I was 15 was much lower than the IQ i had at the age of 18 and lower than when I was 25-27! you might surprise, after the age 27 I read first science book in my life! and in last 5 years I have read some 4000 science books that's how I joined this forum as a self assumed physicist! So i can say, it can be increased later on! some efforts are really necessary to advance the IQ microscopically, its not an easy task I admit, because I took hell of efforts to improve myself ! i thing your existing IQ is related to your lifestyle... if you improve lifestyle(the way you utilize intellectual energy, it too improves! And hey, even Einstein was not a smart fella in his school days! ;)
I wanted to become an engineer so with 65% marks I went to Engineering... I couldn't cope up in the first semester as i didnt have practice to sustain study load (not because my study concepts were unclear)and failed in all subjects of that semester... we had annual pattern so I continued schooling for the rest of the year, i studied well and scored good 88% when I finished my first year I was 16 years old... continued that pace for next 5 years become a Mechanical Engineer with 80% Now you may be wondering why i am telling you all this! Well, I never took studies seriously...i am a lazy person... and hate solving questions in an competitive manner like a mad race...so i procrastinate... read on! My real test of IQ was done only 2-3 times in my entire academic life...when I took TOEFL, GRE and GMAT... I scored 90% in all three exams... in GRE i was close to 100%! I also took 2 step entrance exam called IIT-JEE in India which is famous for its toughest tough exam in the world with huge syllabus and extremely tough questions...I could clear first test called screen test in IIT-JEE... anyway... what I want to cay is, IQ testing might be the most stupid thing on earth... it may only tell whether a student will fail or not in finishing his course intellectually or faulter...nothing else! for me EQ is more important than IQ... my IQ when I was 15 was much lower than the IQ i had at the age of 18 and lower than when I was 25-27! you might surprise, after the age 27 I read first science book in my life! and in last 5 years I have read some 4000 science books that's how I joined this forum as a self assumed physicist! So i can say, it can be increased later on! some efforts are really necessary to advance the IQ microscopically, its not an easy task I admit, because I took hell of efforts to improve myself ! i thing your existing IQ is related to your lifestyle... if you improve lifestyle(the way you utilize intellectual energy, it too improves! And hey, even Einstein was not a smart fella in his school days! ;)
- #71
Evo
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Actually, that is a myth, Einstein's grades were very good.JOSH19 said:
http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/Albert-einsteins-matriculation-certificate-1896/
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- #72
Evo
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This thread is now going off topic and has run it's course.
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